How are people defending this???

[ERCougar]

I've been reading through the posts on Obama's recent comments and I'm amazed at how many are actually buying the line that people are only upset because he's telling the truth. Seriously? Let's examine...

"It's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

So, essentially religion = guns/xenophobia = coping mechanism to deal with frustration. How is that not offensive? How is that the truth?

And then there's the word "cling"--each of us "clinging" to our little security blanket of religion because we just have no other way of dealing with life. The very word is offensive.

Yeah, this is really poor word choice on his part. But this quote is wrong on so many levels that I can't believe anyone (well, outside of Cali) is willing to defend this.

[non sequitur]

He's not equating religion to guns and xenophobia. He's talking about small-minded people who fixate on pet issues. People who vote for candidates based solely on whether they support or oppose abortion, or who care only about where a candidate stands on gun control, or where he/she stands on immigration. Just look at all the dopes who support Huckabee, or those whose opinion of McCain is based solely on his views on immigration. It's understandable why Obama's statements rankled so many, but I think they're pretty much spot on.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

He's not equating religion to guns and xenophobia. He's talking about small-minded people who fixate on pet issues. People who vote for candidates based solely on whether they support or oppose abortion, or who care only about where a candidate stands on gun control, or where he/she stands on immigration. Just look at all the dopes who support Huckabee, or those whose opinion of McCain is based solely on his views on immigration. It's understandable why Obama's statements rankled so many, but I think they're pretty much spot on.

Is his quote taken out of context? Was he talking about the issues that people choose to vote on immediately prior to this? If so, it's an extremely stupid way of making his point that's much too easily turned into an offensive soundbite in a presidential election (and not the first of his political gaffes).

If not, well then I think you're making a very favorable interpretation of what he said, to say the least. To say that people have "pet" issues (likely true in any state of the economy) is very different from "clinging to guns, religion, and antipathy". Supporting immigration reform is very different from "antipathy towards people not like [you]".

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

I've been reading through the posts on Obama's recent comments and I'm amazed at how many are actually buying the line that people are only upset because he's telling the truth. Seriously? Let's examine...

"It's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

So, essentially religion = guns/xenophobia = coping mechanism to deal with frustration. How is that not offensive? How is that the truth?

And then there's the word "cling"--each of us "clinging" to our little security blanket of religion because we just have no other way of dealing with life. The very word is offensive.

Yeah, this is really poor word choice on his part. But this quote is wrong on so many levels that I can't believe anyone (well, outside of Cali) is willing to defend this.

He is saying exactly what "intellectually elite" folks think. Go back and read some Seattle Ute posts on religion and the corresponding relationship to not being able to think clearly.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

He's not equating religion to guns and xenophobia. He's talking about small-minded people who fixate on pet issues. People who vote for candidates based solely on whether they support or oppose abortion, or who care only about where a candidate stands on gun control, or where he/she stands on immigration. Just look at all the dopes who support Huckabee, or those whose opinion of McCain is based solely on his views on immigration. It's understandable why Obama's statements rankled so many, but I think they're pretty much spot on.

I agree. I really can't believe people are trying to make this out to be such a huge issue. People want to read into his comments that he hates religion because it is something people "cling" to when they are bitter. Is that false on any level? People frequently DO cling to religion when they are bitter with other aspects of their lives, particularly economic aspects. What percentage of rich people attend church regularly? Compare that to the percentage of poor people and you can see he has a point. That doesn't mean he thinks religion is awful. To say he does is inserting far more into his sentence than is otherwise merited. Religion is among a long list of things that people cling to when they are bitter. That doesn't mean you must be bitter to cling to religion either.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I agree. I really can't believe people are trying to make this out to be such a huge issue. People want to read into his comments that he hates religion because it is something people "cling" to when they are bitter. Is that false on any level? People frequently DO cling to religion when they are bitter with other aspects of their lives, particularly economic aspects. What percentage of rich people attend church regularly? Compare that to the percentage of poor people and you can see he has a point. That doesn't mean he thinks religion is awful. To say he does is inserting far more into his sentence than is otherwise merited. Religion is among a long list of things that people cling to when they are bitter. That doesn't mean you must be bitter to cling to religion either.

You couldn't believe people "made a big deal" out of the Wright issue either. Perhaps you are not in touch with your average Democrat voter, Cali.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Is his quote taken out of context? Was he talking about the issues that people choose to vote on immediately prior to this? If so, it's an extremely stupid way of making his point that's much too easily turned into an offensive soundbite in a presidential election (and not the first of his political gaffes).

If not, well then I think you're making a very favorable interpretation of what he said, to say the least. To say that people have "pet" issues (likely true in any state of the economy) is very different from "clinging to guns, religion, and antipathy". Supporting immigration reform is very different from "antipathy towards people not like [you]".

So now you are just saying he has made presidential gaffes? Which candidate that you support hasn't? The sentence comes across poorly, but only if you intentionally give it the least favorable reading possible, and then several inferences from that reading.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

You couldn't believe people "made a big deal" out of the Wright issue either. Perhaps you are not in touch with your average Democrat voter, Cali.

I think I am. His poll numbers went up after the Wright issue, in large part due to his speech (which still registers more hits on Youtube than any of Wrights rants). People recognized it for what it was: a sham attack on a decent man. The entire crux of the Wright issue was whether or not Obama agreed with Wright and was a closet racist. That was pretty easily debunked, so what was left to discuss other than the fact that Wright holds some racist and crazed thoughts?

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I agree. I really can't believe people are trying to make this out to be such a huge issue. People want to read into his comments that he hates religion because it is something people "cling" to when they are bitter. Is that false on any level? People frequently DO cling to religion when they are bitter with other aspects of their lives, particularly economic aspects. What percentage of rich people attend church regularly? Compare that to the percentage of poor people and you can see he has a point. That doesn't mean he thinks religion is awful. To say he does is inserting far more into his sentence than is otherwise merited. Religion is among a long list of things that people cling to when they are bitter. That doesn't mean you must be bitter to cling to religion either.

Obama is the perfect candidate to carry the democrats banner of "we are intellectually superior to you." The liberal media agrees with this thought by the way.

Guess what, as I conservative republican I will grant the dems and the press that, you are intellectually superior. It is too bad that intellectual superiority isn't all that important unless you are pontificating or accurately spelling. Give me someone with good common sense anytime.

[YOhio]

The veracity of his comment and the intent behind it are irrelevent. It was a dumb thing to say and the Republicans are going to exploit it to portray Obama as an effete elitist. The demographic that would be most offended by this comment could give a shit about nuance. They will give it the worst reading possible and will feel insulted.

This could possibly be Obama's "I voted for the 82 billion before I voted against it." Dems need to get their brilliant orator to stick to script, at least when camera's are around.