I want to challenge Snipe - Page 3 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

All-American · 06-18-2007, 07:13 AM

One evil deed is not worse than a million evil deeds. Committing an evil deed yourself in order to prevent somebody else from committing a million evil deeds?

If we, as a nation, ever degenerate to the point where we permit our hands to be stained by such atrocities, we will be fighting to protect a country that won't be worth protecting. We will have diminished the ideals upon which this country is founded-- a crime made all the worse, having been done in the name of preserving them.

I know there is often a balance between order and liberty, and it is not always possible to have both in the preferred abundance. I just hope that, as we discuss where that balance lies between freedom and safety, we really believe that there are some things worth dying for.

JohnnyLingo · 06-18-2007, 08:10 AM

So what you're saying is Mike and others should be willing to hand their own children over to terrorists to be killed rather than use waterboarding on a known terrorist.

MikeWaters · 06-18-2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Mike, what are you doing to stop this torture?

I ask this because complaining about it on message boards will not help end the practice.

This is a good start. If I can get Snipe to agree, I will contact major news organizations. Even ESPN, with the message board and football tie-in.

I'll ask Snipe and see what he says. From his angle, this could be a win, because he could endure this and say at the end "this was a piece of cake."

Although, I believe that I could make him scream for mercy beforehand, which would dull his message.

Snipe · 06-18-2007, 02:40 PM

It has nothing to do with the truth value of the argument, and it is assinine machismo run amok. How about we just do the "gallon challenge" and see who can drink the most milk? Gee, THAT would clarify things.....

snipe

Indy Coug · 06-18-2007, 02:45 PM

There are a whole slew of things that I would refuse to be subjected to that aren't remotely considered to be torture.

MikeWaters · 06-18-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

There are a whole slew of things that I would refuse to be subjected to that aren't remotely considered to be torture.

for five minutes? or less than a minute? (article said CIA trainees could only withstand 14 sec on average).

MikeWaters · 06-18-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I read an article once that claimed that most people cannot withstand waterboarding for even 5 minutes before reaching a point of absolute panic. I will look for it and post it if I can find it.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=1322866

They were amazed that Khaleid Sheik Mohammed lasted 2.5 minutes.

Indy Coug · 06-18-2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

for five minutes? or less than a minute? (article said CIA trainees could only withstand 14 sec on average).

Example: skydiving with a parachute.

MikeWaters · 06-18-2007, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Example: skydiving with a parachute.

I don't get it. You are not willing to skydive?

Indy Coug · 06-18-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I don't get it. You are not willing to skydive?

No.

06-18-2007, 07:13 AM	#21
All-American Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,420	One evil deed is not worse than a million evil deeds. Committing an evil deed yourself in order to prevent somebody else from committing a million evil deeds? If we, as a nation, ever degenerate to the point where we permit our hands to be stained by such atrocities, we will be fighting to protect a country that won't be worth protecting. We will have diminished the ideals upon which this country is founded-- a crime made all the worse, having been done in the name of preserving them. I know there is often a balance between order and liberty, and it is not always possible to have both in the preferred abundance. I just hope that, as we discuss where that balance lies between freedom and safety, we really believe that there are some things worth dying for. __________________ εν αρχη ην ο λογος

06-18-2007, 02:40 PM	#24
Snipe Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2	That's a pretty stupid idea..... It has nothing to do with the truth value of the argument, and it is assinine machismo run amok. How about we just do the "gallon challenge" and see who can drink the most milk? Gee, THAT would clarify things..... snipe

06-18-2007, 08:10 AM	#22
JohnnyLingo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,175	So what you're saying is Mike and others should be willing to hand their own children over to terrorists to be killed rather than use waterboarding on a known terrorist.

06-18-2007, 02:45 PM	#25
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	There are a whole slew of things that I would refuse to be subjected to that aren't remotely considered to be torture.