How much work does it take to receive exaltation? - Page 4 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

jay santos · 10-10-2007, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I believe in absolute truth, too. At least I hope for it. I'm just saying that debate over doctrinal details is often silly, and I believe that culture drives most of that debate.

What's great about Mormonism is that Shaf's butt can still end up in the celestial kingdom, while in his view, all of our butts are going straight to hell. In my opinion, this is where the Christianity of Mormonism wins the day.

This is a good point. I used to think that if you had to choose, you ought to for Mormon, since living Mormonism you'll be exalted if Mormonism is true and also make it to heaven if Christians are right, since a subset of Mormonism is to accept and follow Christ which is the Christian salvation. But actually you're right. Christians condemn Mormons and say we're going to hell since we don't accept the true Jesus, and Mormons allow for Christians to repent and accept true gospel of Christ in hereafter. So I guess if you want to hedge, you ought to hook up with AShaf.

jay santos · 10-10-2007, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

This is a good point. I used to think that if you had to choose, you ought to for Mormon, since living Mormonism you'll be exalted if Mormonism is true and also make it to heaven if Christians are right, since a subset of Mormonism is to accept and follow Christ which is the Christian salvation. But actually you're right. Christians condemn Mormons and say we're going to hell since we don't accept the true Jesus, and Mormons allow for Christians to repent and accept true gospel of Christ in hereafter. So I guess if you want to hedge, you ought to hook up with AShaf.

Come to think of it, maybe Ashaf has this figured out and he's using the anti-Mormon thing as a coverup to remain close to LDS.

Tex · 10-10-2007, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

They were reborn in the midst of wreaking havoc.
Alma called out for mercy and was saved.
What did he *do* ?

Depends on what you mean by "saved."

SoonerCoug · 10-10-2007, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Depends on what you mean by "saved."

For me, saved=Telestial Kingdom. Sounds like a great place.

Archaea · 10-10-2007, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

But, since subconsiously AShaf believes what he does for cultural reasons, it makes no difference whether Johah really survived the whale, right? So you should lay off.

You just trumped all religious debate. Your underlying assumption is that none of it's true (can of worms that definition but let's just use a definition Tex would use for it), so there's no point in arguing the truth of any religion. Everyone believes, at least subconciously, for behavioral/cultural reasons.

You may believe that for yourself, and you have at least one guy Seattle Ute in your corner. But you're selling a lot of people short who do believe there is absolute truth.

Shaf has no value. He's antagonist without a purpose.

aaronshaf · 10-10-2007, 05:34 AM

It's dangerous quoting Mormon leaders to Mormons, isn't it? :-)

Quote:

I just have a problem with people who analyze and/or ridicule Mormon theology without even attempting to understand what drives Mormonism.

I don't believe Mormonism is driven by appeal of its theology as much as it's driven by appeal of its values and the virtues that it promotes. In other words, there is a "Mormon life," and most people choose to believe (or gain "testimonies" of) the theology because the "Mormon life" brings fulfillment.

I have another article related to this subject:

http://www.mormonwiki.org/Atheological_tendency

Take care,

Aaron

il Padrino Ute · 10-10-2007, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronshaf

It's dangerous quoting Mormon leaders to Mormons, isn't it? :-)

I have another article related to this subject:

http://www.mormonwiki.org/Atheological_tendency

Take care,

Aaron

Dangerous quoting Mormon leaders to Mormons? How do you figure?

Is it dangerous to paraphrase (that's what you do) the Savior to evangelicals?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

SoCalCoug · 10-10-2007, 05:57 AM

It's sort of a chicken and egg thing. Is it the "mighty change of heart" that leads to the "fruits" of that change, or the good works, or is it the works that lead to the "mighty change of heart"?

That may be the essence of what we're arguing here.

I'm not so sure that it's the latter.

Indy Coug · 10-10-2007, 12:47 PM

Works and grace are inseparable. Without one, the other does not exist.

10-10-2007, 05:57 AM	#38
SoCalCoug Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 3,059	It's sort of a chicken and egg thing. Is it the "mighty change of heart" that leads to the "fruits" of that change, or the good works, or is it the works that lead to the "mighty change of heart"? That may be the essence of what we're arguing here. I'm not so sure that it's the latter. __________________ Get your stinking paws off me, you damned, dirty Yewt! "Now perhaps as I spanked myself screaming out "Kozlowski, say it like you mean it bitch!" might have been out of line, but such was the mood." - Goatnapper "If you want to fatten a pig up to make the pig MORE delicious, you can feed it almost anything. Seriously. The pig is like the car on Back to the Future. You put in garbage, and out comes something magical!" - Cali Coug

10-10-2007, 12:47 PM	#39
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	Works and grace are inseparable. Without one, the other does not exist.