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Old 06-19-2007, 08:30 PM   #1
FMCoug
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Default Starting a vegetable garden

So now that we have some land, we've reserved some space in the back for a vegetable garden. Neither Mrs. FM or I have every done this so it will be a new thing.

A few questions:

1. How much room do we need?
2. What would be good to start with? Something easy would be nice.
3. Is it too late in the season (Texas mind you) to try this year or should we wait until next Spring?
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Old 06-19-2007, 08:32 PM   #2
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depends on how much product you want, and how much time you are willing to invest.

If you want to start easy, then begin with something small. Our total garden space is less than 8' by 8'.

Tomatoes are pretty easy, you could plant some and you will have fruit in the Fall (too hot during summer to produce fruit).
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Old 06-19-2007, 08:47 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMCoug View Post
1. How much room do we need?
2. What would be good to start with? Something easy would be nice.
3. Is it too late in the season (Texas mind you) to try this year or should we wait until next Spring?
It's not too late. Most nursery's will have some starts that you can put right in.

You won't need a whole lot of room, my garden is 15' X 11' and we have quite a bit.

Some easy vegetables are tomatoes, cucumber, peppers, squash, and zucchini.
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Old 06-19-2007, 09:54 PM   #4
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Cherry tomatoes in a garden are awesome and easy to manage.
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Old 06-19-2007, 10:02 PM   #5
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My wife and I planted rasberries and strawberries last month and they are all dead. I'm no green thumb.
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Old 06-19-2007, 10:08 PM   #6
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I'm a major gardener. Our garden is 40' by 25' and I have a rototiller.

Agree with the suggestion on tomatos - you won't get fruit in the summer (too hot) but if you get an indeterminate variety, you'll get fruit clear up until your first freeze (if you have those?). I don't know what your climate is like so it's harder for me to answer the "when" question but here is my take on various crops:

- Tomatos are easily the highest-reward item you can plant. Store bought tomatos suck because they pick them when green. There is no substitute for vine-ripened tomatos. In addition, if you plant too many you can always can them.
- Carrots are easy to grow and you can harvest a bunch of them in the fall; however, they are somewhat a pain because they have to be thinned. One good way to plant them without thinning is to get some sticky seed tape and manually place the carrot seeds out on it at the proper spacing. Of course, this is tedious work as well and home-grown carrots don't really taste that great compared to store bought so the work/reward ratio really isn't there for me. Other "more pain than they're worth" crops include: onions, radishes, scallions, spinach, any type of lettuce crop, etc. It's just way easier to get them in the store.
- Peas are easy to grow but you have to plant them very early in Utah and I'm not sure how they will do in Texas. The biggest problem with peas is that they generally have to be staked up and then you have to plant a ton of them even to get a little bit of peas. You go out in the morning and pick peas all day and you get a huge tubfull of peas. Then you sit there and shell peas all day and you get a bowlful. That's an awful lot of work when you can just buy a bag of frozen peas at the store for $0.99 and the taste isn't that much different. Of course, if you love eating raw peas then the cost/benefit ratio changes.
- Corn is something where the cost/benefit ratio is worth it because fresh corn off your own stalks can't be beat. The issue with corn is that it takes a lot of everything - lot of land, lot of fertilizer, and lot of pesticide. Corn is generally cross pollinating so you need to plant enough stalks to get them pollinated. The biggest mistake people make is to plant 4 or 5 little cornstalks and then wonder why they didn't get anything. If you only have a small garden then corn isn't practical. If you don't fertilize properly (a problem for us because we have crappy alkaline clay soil) then the corn will develop red streaks on the stalks and will be stunted. If you don't use pesticide then your corn will likely be full of earwigs. I never knew how earwigs got their name until I first planted corn. The pesticides usually come in a powder form than you can manually brush on the silk and end part of the ear which will keep the earwigs down and give you much better yield.
- Squash, pumpkins, zuchini, any type of gourd: I'm not a squash fan so I don't ever plant it. Plus, gourd type plants generally take up a lot of room. People like to get nostaligic about planting their own pumpkins for Halloween and such but it takes a heck of a lot of garden space to produce a single big pumpkin and if you're like me (5 kids) then you simply don't have the space to do 5 pumpkins so why even do it?
- Beans: beans are a good workhorse crop - easy to grow, decent eating, good for canning, etc. I don't love beans but it makes sense to plant them and can them. I usually get the vine type and stake them up because you get a higher yield but the bush kind are fine as well.
- potatos: Another low effort/reward plant. Potatos are so much cheaper and easier to buy in the store. Heck, a 20lb. bag of potatos is less than a 10lb. bag. You can get a 20lb. bag for something like $2.00 so why go to all the hassle and effort of planting potatos - it's not as if there is a taste difference.
- Asparagus - great to grow if you can do it. The effort/reward is worth it because fresh asparagus is the best. It grows back year after year so you need a "permanent" location for it.
- Brocoli, cauliflower, etc - Not worth the hassle. Requires nice cool weather, very early planting and then you have to mess around with bleaching the cauliflower head (by covering it) and stuff like that.

Thus, our annual garden usually has the three main crops (corn, tomatos, and beans) with some other stuff thrown in just for fun even though it isn't really worth the effort of planting: peas, carrots, onions, peppers, beets, radishes, etc.

Man, I could talk gardening all day long. Next we can have a long discourse about the pros and cons of hybrid vs. heirloom seeds.
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Old 06-19-2007, 10:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
I'm a major gardener. Our garden is 40' by 25' and I have a rototiller.

Agree with the suggestion on tomatos - you won't get fruit in the summer (too hot) but if you get an indeterminate variety, you'll get fruit clear up until your first freeze (if you have those?). I don't know what your climate is like so it's harder for me to answer the "when" question but here is my take on various crops:

- Tomatos are easily the highest-reward item you can plant. Store bought tomatos suck because they pick them when green. There is no substitute for vine-ripened tomatos. In addition, if you plant too many you can always can them.
- Carrots are easy to grow and you can harvest a bunch of them in the fall; however, they are somewhat a pain because they have to be thinned. One good way to plant them without thinning is to get some sticky seed tape and manually place the carrot seeds out on it at the proper spacing. Of course, this is tedious work as well and home-grown carrots don't really taste that great compared to store bought so the work/reward ratio really isn't there for me. Other "more pain than they're worth" crops include: onions, radishes, scallions, spinach, any type of lettuce crop, etc. It's just way easier to get them in the store.
- Peas are easy to grow but you have to plant them very early in Utah and I'm not sure how they will do in Texas. The biggest problem with peas is that they generally have to be staked up and then you have to plant a ton of them even to get a little bit of peas. You go out in the morning and pick peas all day and you get a huge tubfull of peas. Then you sit there and shell peas all day and you get a bowlful. That's an awful lot of work when you can just buy a bag of frozen peas at the store for $0.99 and the taste isn't that much different. Of course, if you love eating raw peas then the cost/benefit ratio changes.
- Corn is something where the cost/benefit ratio is worth it because fresh corn off your own stalks can't be beat. The issue with corn is that it takes a lot of everything - lot of land, lot of fertilizer, and lot of pesticide. Corn is generally cross pollinating so you need to plant enough stalks to get them pollinated. The biggest mistake people make is to plant 4 or 5 little cornstalks and then wonder why they didn't get anything. If you only have a small garden then corn isn't practical. If you don't fertilize properly (a problem for us because we have crappy alkaline clay soil) then the corn will develop red streaks on the stalks and will be stunted. If you don't use pesticide then your corn will likely be full of earwigs. I never knew how earwigs got their name until I first planted corn. The pesticides usually come in a powder form than you can manually brush on the silk and end part of the ear which will keep the earwigs down and give you much better yield.
- Squash, pumpkins, zuchini, any type of gourd: I'm not a squash fan so I don't ever plant it. Plus, gourd type plants generally take up a lot of room. People like to get nostaligic about planting their own pumpkins for Halloween and such but it takes a heck of a lot of garden space to produce a single big pumpkin and if you're like me (5 kids) then you simply don't have the space to do 5 pumpkins so why even do it?
- Beans: beans are a good workhorse crop - easy to grow, decent eating, good for canning, etc. I don't love beans but it makes sense to plant them and can them. I usually get the vine type and stake them up because you get a higher yield but the bush kind are fine as well.
- potatos: Another low effort/reward plant. Potatos are so much cheaper and easier to buy in the store. Heck, a 20lb. bag of potatos is less than a 10lb. bag. You can get a 20lb. bag for something like $2.00 so why go to all the hassle and effort of planting potatos - it's not as if there is a taste difference.
- Asparagus - great to grow if you can do it. The effort/reward is worth it because fresh asparagus is the best. It grows back year after year so you need a "permanent" location for it.
- Brocoli, cauliflower, etc - Not worth the hassle. Requires nice cool weather, very early planting and then you have to mess around with bleaching the cauliflower head (by covering it) and stuff like that.

Thus, our annual garden usually has the three main crops (corn, tomatos, and beans) with some other stuff thrown in just for fun even though it isn't really worth the effort of planting: peas, carrots, onions, peppers, beets, radishes, etc.

Man, I could talk gardening all day long. Next we can have a long discourse about the pros and cons of hybrid vs. heirloom seeds.
Space is not really an issue. We have another another 50' or so to our property line BEHIND where we ended the back yard. And the lot is 150' wide. So from a space standpoint it really would come down to maintenance / starting small because we're rookies, etc.

Sounds like corn might be a good start though. Plenty of room and we love fresh corn on the cob during the summer. The pumpking thing IS interesting due to the potential to get the kids involved in growing their own pumpkins. How much space would you need to be able to do a good sized one per kid (4 kids). Again, there is plenty of room back there. Also, I have all the soil that was dug up for the pool to work with. To spread out / build up a garden spot, whatever. And I've gotten reasonably good on a rented Bobcat.

What about critter management? We're out in the sticks so I imagine that would be a pretty big issue.
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Old 06-19-2007, 10:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMCoug View Post
Space is not really an issue. We have another another 50' or so to our property line BEHIND where we ended the back yard. And the lot is 150' wide. So from a space standpoint it really would come down to maintenance / starting small because we're rookies, etc.
I gotta be honest, you're getting a late start. You'll want to make sure as often as possible you get the later-season varieties of each fruit/vegetable.

You might still be able to pull off watermelon, which is a must in this part of the country. Pumpkins should be really easy.

In terms of plot size, I would definitely start small while you figure out if the family enjoys this avocation.
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMCoug View Post
Space is not really an issue. We have another another 50' or so to our property line BEHIND where we ended the back yard. And the lot is 150' wide. So from a space standpoint it really would come down to maintenance / starting small because we're rookies, etc.

Sounds like corn might be a good start though. Plenty of room and we love fresh corn on the cob during the summer. The pumpking thing IS interesting due to the potential to get the kids involved in growing their own pumpkins. How much space would you need to be able to do a good sized one per kid (4 kids). Again, there is plenty of room back there. Also, I have all the soil that was dug up for the pool to work with. To spread out / build up a garden spot, whatever. And I've gotten reasonably good on a rented Bobcat.

What about critter management? We're out in the sticks so I imagine that would be a pretty big issue.
- You are on the tail-end of the corn-planting timeframe. As the old saying goes: "knee high by the fourth of July" (you won't even be close). You may still get some corn if you plant now but you probably won't get a very good crop. I usually plant corn in early May ("after Mother's Day" is a good rule of thumb to be safe from Utah frost - although this year I think we had a post Mother's Day freeze). Barbara's recommendation about getting late-starting hybrid varieties is a good one.
- You can still plant pumpkins now but they won't be very big come Halloween. I would say a 3'x3' space minimum per plant.
- If you are going to try to do tomatos now, pick out the starts with the thickest stalks. I can usually get tomatos until late October. You won't have a great year this year because you started so late but you'll still be able to get something out of them because I suspect you have a later freeze date than I do.

Critters will likely be a problem but I'm not sure what kind of critters you'll be dealing with.

Deer? good luck - they're a huge pain - no good way to deal with them without major fencing. All that stuff about wolverine urine or bobcat urine or sonic pest preventers or electric strips in the ground - anything like that is pretty much hogwash in my experience.

Gophers? Manageable if you stay on it. You definitely want to trap and kill; anything less will not work. Let me know if you have gophers and I can make specific recommendations about the best way to kill them.

Insects? Not that much you can do here without being more specific. Get hybrid varieties that are resistant to disease (often spread by insects). If you know you have a specific insect problem then you can try a pesticide or two but I prefer to not use pesticides (except to prevent earwigs in the corn). For every pest there are a variety of techniques you can use. For example, you can cut the bottom and top off #10 cans and then plant each stalk in a can if you have problems with worms. Same for tomatos if you have cutworm issues.

You'll pretty much just have to learn as you go - learn how to identify which specific pests you have and how to counteract. There are many, many books about gardening and you can get specific information about your area from the agricultural university in your state (I think Texas has one of those Aggie-type schools don't they?)
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
- You are on the tail-end of the corn-planting timeframe. As the old saying goes: "knee high by the fourth of July" (you won't even be close). You may still get some corn if you plant now but you probably won't get a very good crop. I usually plant corn in early May ("after Mother's Day" is a good rule of thumb to be safe from Utah frost - although this year I think we had a post Mother's Day freeze). Barbara's recommendation about getting late-starting hybrid varieties is a good one.
- You can still plant pumpkins now but they won't be very big come Halloween. I would say a 3'x3' space minimum per plant.
- If you are going to try to do tomatos now, pick out the starts with the thickest stalks. I can usually get tomatos until late October. You won't have a great year this year because you started so late but you'll still be able to get something out of them because I suspect you have a later freeze date than I do.

Critters will likely be a problem but I'm not sure what kind of critters you'll be dealing with.

Deer? good luck - they're a huge pain - no good way to deal with them without major fencing. All that stuff about wolverine urine or bobcat urine or sonic pest preventers or electric strips in the ground - anything like that is pretty much hogwash in my experience.

Gophers? Manageable if you stay on it. You definitely want to trap and kill; anything less will not work. Let me know if you have gophers and I can make specific recommendations about the best way to kill them.

Insects? Not that much you can do here without being more specific. Get hybrid varieties that are resistant to disease (often spread by insects). If you know you have a specific insect problem then you can try a pesticide or two but I prefer to not use pesticides (except to prevent earwigs in the corn). For every pest there are a variety of techniques you can use. For example, you can cut the bottom and top off #10 cans and then plant each stalk in a can if you have problems with worms. Same for tomatos if you have cutworm issues.

You'll pretty much just have to learn as you go - learn how to identify which specific pests you have and how to counteract. There are many, many books about gardening and you can get specific information about your area from the agricultural university in your state (I think Texas has one of those Aggie-type schools don't they?)
Sounds like maybe I should educate myself first and start a garden next spring.
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