How much education does a SAHM need?

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by All-American

Are you open to a recent BYU grad lecturing you on how you're wrong about BYU culture? Because I don't see what you're seeing, and I still have the stench of Provo emanating from my cap and gown.

I would guess that Mike would say that you are a Utahn and because BYU culture = Utah culture, you are unable to notice anything that is a problem.

[MikeWaters]

People don't find what they never look for.

In the real world, more than 50% of medical school applicants are female.

Do you think that at BYU, the % is even in the same ballpark as 50%?

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by All-American

Are you open to a recent BYU grad lecturing you on how you're wrong about BYU culture? Because I don't see what you're seeing, and I still have the stench of Provo emanating from my cap and gown.

try this: go to a big, competitive law school. meet other LDS students there. report back on the demographics. how many are women? how many are married women? how many are married women with children?

then look at the larger student population. it will probably be more than 50% women, and it won't be hard to find some that are married and/or have children.

[MikeWaters]

I want to take back something about my brother-in-law: I said that he was not attracted to professional-type women.

Well he is currently dating an LDS asst. professor of literature. So there goes that theory.

I'm not sure that I know any LDS female physicians. Not a one.

In College Station, I can think of one LDS female professor. Maybe there are more, but I am not aware of them.

In my ward I can think of only one semi-professional LDS working women--she's an accountant.

Let's face it, it's just not common. I'm afraid it might be common for the young women who grow up to be professionals to leave the church.

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

you seem to think that a SAHM doesn't need a law degree.

There are some kinds of technical training that would seem to be a waste if you never used it as a SAHM--like going to truck driving school. Or learning the ins and outs of the engineering of heating and cooling in skyscrapers.

There's a line somewhere--and I'm not sure where it is--where you have to wonder about the investment of time and money (and that's a two-sided thing--schools benefit when their alums do well, so the school is investing in the student, esp. when spots are limited like BYU law).

A waste seems like the wrong term. My point about law school in particular is that it's expensive, and it is meant to funnel you onto a particular path (as with many professional schools, I realize). It's more like an entry ticket than an education. Sure you learn things, but you're building your resume there as much as you're building your mind.

So its a poor investment if you don't build on it after you finish law school. I would say that about anyone who goes and then opts out (and there are plenty of these, both sexes). Law school is easy to attend because you don't need any particular background to get in, and many unfortunately don't think that through before they've invested big.

But in the larger conversation, it goes back to my initial point about ambition. We are not raising our daughters to strive to achieve. Instead, we laud their sacrifice.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

A waste seems like the wrong term. My point about law school in particular is that it's expensive, and it is meant to funnel you onto a particular path (as with many professional schools, I realize). It's more like an entry ticket than an education. Sure you learn things, but you're building your resume there as much as you're building your mind.

So its a poor investment if you don't build on it after you finish law school. I would say that about anyone who goes and then opts out (and there are plenty of these, both sexes). Law school is easy to attend because you don't need any particular background to get in, and many unfortunately don't think that through before they've invested big.

But in the larger conversation, it goes back to my initial point about ambition. We are not raising our daughters to strive to achieve. Instead, we laud their sacrifice.

Far be it from me to say that it is a great achievement to be a lawyer, or that it is a noble pursuit.

I like what one of my female LDS friends did--she applied for law school, but turned it down to be a SAHM. I think just the knowledge that she had been accepted into the school of her choice (which she widely publicized, I believe) was good enough for her. That she could have gone down that road if she wanted, but that she chooses not to. She had proven something to herself.

Life is short. We all have a lot of choices. More choices than we admit to ourselves. There is a place for SAHMs and I think they are awesome. There is also a place for professional women who are briefly SAHMs when kids are young, or are not SAHMs at all.

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Far be it from me to say that it is a great achievement to be a lawyer, or that it is a noble pursuit.

I like what one of my female LDS friends did--she applied for law school, but turned it down to be a SAHM. I think just the knowledge that she had been accepted into the school of her choice (which she widely publicized, I believe) was good enough for her. That she could have gone down that road if she wanted, but that she chooses not to. She had proven something to herself.

Life is short. We all have a lot of choices. More choices than we admit to ourselves. There is a place for SAHMs and I think they are awesome. There is also a place for professional women who are briefly SAHMs when kids are young, or are not SAHMs at all.

yes, you make your feelings about lawyers clear. fine.

and yes, we all have choices. but for a young, devout, LDS woman, do you think her choices are the same as a non-LDS young woman? or an LDS young man? Do they many of them freely choose SAHM, or is it a default?

It is not my intent to disparage any SAHMs. I agree it is a difficult, important, praise-worthy job. I'd love for any woman who wants to choose that to be able to do it, and do it well. I just wish I felt like it was really chosen and not just defaulting into what is expected (for most if not all who do become SAHMs).

[MikeWaters]

Let's face it--SAHM-hood is the province of the well-off.

The veneer of 20th century feminism has been rubbed away, and smart, talented women are not ashamed to proclaim themselves SAHMs. It's a luxury that not all women can afford.

Because of cultural expectations, LDS women are more likely to go the SAHM route, and LDS men are more likely to select women that want to go this route. Is there a place carved out for women who do not fit this mold, that they too can feel accepted?

[All-American]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

People don't find what they never look for.

In the real world, more than 50% of medical school applicants are female.

Do you think that at BYU, the % is even in the same ballpark as 50%?

Ah, I must not be looking, then.

That's crap, Mike.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by All-American

Ah, I must not be looking, then.

That's crap, Mike.

Zoobs only care about a few things. This is not on the list of those things.