Of Converts, Choirs and Misguided Bishops

[The_Tick]

I normally don't even read the religious topics here....

But this is a conversation I was having with a young woman yesterday at church.

My oldest daughter is 15 years old. I would say in the last year she has probably brought 10 of her girlfriends with her to church. 2 of these girls have taken a real liking to the church and have come on a weekly basis for the past few months. Both of these girls just finished a week at a BYU soccer camp in Provo with my daughter. (We live in California, so this isn't a two block drive.)

Yesterday is church instead of sitting right next to my daughter, I am seated next to her friend. (She doesn't have a Dad in her home, she looks up to me as a "father" figure so this is okay by all.)

I realize during the meeting that she hasn't sung anything out of the hymnal with us during the entire meeting. I don't question it while we are there in church. (I know for a fact she has a great singing voice though.)

Last night while we are eating Sunday dinner, (Usually if you go to church with us you stay and eat dinner with us. Not a rule, but when church gets out at 330...) I ask her why she doesn't sing during church..

This is her direct quote...

"Your songs are for white people. They are boring and make me want to go to sleep. You guys should look at some other churches to find out what a hymn is. The stuff you guys sing is slow and not fun."

She is a 15 year old black girl.

It suprised me a little bit, and I would tend to agree with her.

But she isn't going to let that deter her. She is seriously contemplating starting the discussions with the missionaries.

She also had a similar complaint/experience at soccer camp at BYU...

Upon picking the girls up on Friday at the completion of camp she says the following...(A very bright girl btw....)

Me: Girls...how was camp?

Daughter: Good.
Friend 1: Good.
Friend 2: Good. Mr. The_Tick...did you know I was the only black person there? 9 guy teams, 9 girl teams. 14 players on each team, and I am the only black person there. Not even a black girl on the BYU soccer team. You all are weird.

We all laughed about it.....but she brings up a great point.

Not enough diversity in the LDS church.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by The_Tick

Not enough diversity in the LDS church.

Not enough diversity in soccer either. She was a guy, she'd have better luck finding other black people at a BYU football camp.

[RC Vikings]

Originally Posted by The_Tick

Not enough diversity in the LDS church.

Diversity is slowly coming to the church. In our ward we have members from Honduras, Mexico, Korea, Jamaica, Wales, Australia, Tonga, Puerto Rico and Spain. Will the style of the church change with the addition of these different cultures or will it stay the same?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by RC Vikings

Diversity is slowly coming to the church. In our ward we have members from Honduras, Mexico, Korea, Jamaica, Wales, Australia, Tonga, Puerto Rico and Spain. Will the style of the church change with the addition of these different cultures or will it stay the same?

When leadership reflects the demographics of membership, style will change.

Why we have the most boring hymns on the face of the planet is beyond me. I suppose it's a signal we're supposed to sleep at church, so we wouldn't wish to wake anybody slumbering.

Who says the Spirit can only speak to the soul while one sleeps?

[All-American]

Originally Posted by RC Vikings

Diversity is slowly coming to the church. In our ward we have members from Honduras, Mexico, Korea, Jamaica, Wales, Australia, Tonga, Puerto Rico and Spain. Will the style of the church change with the addition of these different cultures or will it stay the same?

I would hope it changes. There is far too much culture tied up to our theology that has nothing to do with the restored gospel.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

When leadership reflects the demographics of membership, style will change.

Why we have the most boring hymns on the face of the planet is beyond me. I suppose it's a signal we're supposed to sleep at church, so we wouldn't wish to wake anybody slumbering.

Who says the Spirit can only speak to the soul while one sleeps?

I think our hymns are wonderful.

Originally Posted by All-American

I would hope it changes. There is far too much culture tied up to our theology that has nothing to do with the restored gospel.

I agree, although I don't think the desire of some bishops to confine ward choirs to hymns is an issue of conflating culture and theology.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Tex

I think our hymns are wonderful.

But you're a statist, so one would expect you to say nothing else.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

But you're a statist, so one would expect you to say nothing else.

We already had this discussion, Arch, and it's dishonest of you to keep repeating it. You have yet to truly define "statist" much less demonstrate that I am one.

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showpos...6&postcount=17
http://cougarguard.com/forum/showpos...4&postcount=13

Originally Posted by Adam

In Tex's world there is no questioning, no thinking, no disagreement. Whatever mistake is made by church leaders is less of a mistake then questioning the church leader.

I might leave the church if everyone thought like you. I really just might leave it. I couldn't take the borg mentality.

This is also not true.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Adam

In Tex's world there is no questioning, no thinking, no disagreement. Whatever mistake is made by church leaders is less of a mistake then questioning the church leader.

I might leave the church if everyone thought like you. I really just might leave it. I couldn't take the borg mentality.

Tex is a modern day statist, not in the economic sense but in the support administration at all costs sense. I have never met a pure statist. But he supports the administration no matter what. From a point of argument, it's good to have one represented here, even if it is alien to us.

A substantial number of our leaders are probably similarly inclined and that's something we as members must accept to a certain extent. We won't change anything except that within our own wards. Fortunately for me, we don't have that many statists in our area.

[Tex]

From a previous response to Arch:

Now. These are my positions. ... they are real and they are definable, and I actually believe them. I don't know how anyone can reasonably define them as "statist." But one way or the other, now that I've stated them, if you persist in your distortions you will be doing nothing other than plain old, flat-out lying.

Arch, you are plain old, flat-out lying.