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Old 02-28-2012, 09:39 PM   #1
MikeWaters
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Default Steel bow

I came across this in a google search.

http://books.google.com/books?id=uBM...bow%22&f=false

Quote:
a steel bow of the ancient Parthian pattern
And then a picture of this man:



To my eye, the back of this bow looks to be reflective.

More:

Quote:
Forming in the Northeast of India, the Gupta Empire (320 to 550 CE) is considered a golden age of Indian and Hindu history...The Gupta military continued to rely heavily on infantry archers, which was an effective counter to mounted archers. One advancement the Gupta military made they made in archery was creating the steel bow; this weapon could match the power of the composite bow while not being subject to the problem of warping do to humidity. This incredibly powerful bow was capable of excellent range and could penetrate thick armor. However, steel bows would have only been used by elite or noble class warriors while common archers continued to use the highly regarded bamboo longbow. Iron shafts were substituted for the long bamboo cane arrows when armor penetration was needed, particularly against armored elephants and cavalry. Fire arrows also were employed by the Gupta, their long bamboo cane arrows being particularly well suited for use in these operations.
http://www.ancientmilitary.com/ancie...a-military.htm

Quote:
The earliest known production of steel is a piece of ironware excavated from an archaeological site in Anatolia (Kaman-Kalehoyuk) and is about 4,000 years old.[18] Other ancient steel comes from East Africa, dating back to 1400 BC.[19] In the 4th century BC steel weapons like the Falcata were produced in the Iberian Peninsula, while Noric steel was used by the Roman military.[20] The Chinese of the Warring States (403–221 BC) had quench-hardened steel,[21] while Chinese of the Han Dynasty (202 BC – 220 AD) created steel by melting together wrought iron with cast iron, gaining an ultimate product of a carbon-intermediate steel by the 1st century AD.[22][23] The Haya people of East Africa invented a type of high-heat blast furnace which allowed them to forge carbon steel at 1,802 °C (3,276 °F) nearly 2,000 years ago.[24]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel#H...of_steelmaking

Anyway, it's still an issue of whether Nephi could have had steel that time. But this avenue is more appealing than other intepretations:

http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/02/2...his-steel-bow/
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:51 PM   #2
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It doesn't solve the problem as metal smithing for that purpose has not been shown in the America's nor in Israel 600 BCE, but it shows other ancients had it available.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:18 AM   #3
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No, it certainly doesn't. But I will have more to say on that later (no proof mind you).
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:49 PM   #4
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Steel is mentioned five times in the Book of Mormon.

Quote:
1 Nephi 16:18
18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine steel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.

2 Nephi 5:15
15 And I did teach my people to build buildings, and to work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in great abundance.

1 Nephi 4:9
9 And I beheld his sword, and I drew it forth from the sheath thereof; and the hilt thereof was of pure gold, and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine, and I saw that the blade thereof was of the most precious steel.

Jarom 1:8
8 And we multiplied exceedingly, and spread upon the face of the land, and became exceedingly rich in gold, and in silver, and in precious things, and in fine workmanship of wood, in buildings, and in machinery, and also in iron and copper, and brass and steel, making all manner of tools of every kind to till the ground, and weapons of war—yea, the sharp pointed arrow, and the quiver, and the dart, and the javelin, and all preparations for war.

Ether 7:9
9 Wherefore, he came to the hill Ephraim, and he did molten out of the hill, and made swords out of steel for those whom he had drawn away with him; and after he had armed them with swords he returned to the city Nehor, and gave battle unto his brother Corihor, by which means he obtained the kingdom and restored it unto his father Kib.
The phrase "Sword of Laban" appears:

Quote:
2 Nephi 5:14
14 And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords, lest by any means the people who were now called Lamanites should come upon us and destroy us; for I knew their hatred towards me and my children and those who were called my people.

Jacob 1:10
10 The people having loved Nephi exceedingly, he having been a great protector for them, having wielded the sword of Laban in their defence, and having labored in all his days for their welfare—

Words of Mormon 1:13
13 And it came to pass also that the armies of the Lamanites came down out of the land of Nephi, to battle against his people. But behold, king Benjamin gathered together his armies, and he did stand against them; and he did fight with the strength of his own arm, with the sword of Laban.

Mosiah 1:16
16 And moreover, he also gave him charge concerning the records which were engraven on the plates of brass; and also the plates of Nephi; and also, the sword of Laban, and the ball or director, which led our fathers through the wilderness, which was prepared by the hand of the Lord that thereby they might be led, every one according to the heed and diligence which they gave unto him.
And again mentioned in the Doctrine & Covenants:
Quote:
Doctrine and Covenants 17:1
1 Behold, I say unto you, that you must rely upon my word, which if you do with full purpose of heart, you shall have a view of the plates, and also of the breastplate, the sword of Laban, the Urim and Thummim, which were given to the brother of Jared upon the mount, when he talked with the Lord face to face, and the miraculous directors which were given to Lehi while in the wilderness, on the borders of the Red Sea.
A steel sword in 600 BC, which many doubt could exist, would have been valuable beyond measure. It's hard to imagine the value. Perhaps worth far more than its weight in gold. When Laban's sword is introduced in the 1st Nephi account, it's value and exquisiteness are emphasized. Particularly that it was made of "the most precious steel." We see that the Sword of Laban was a relic that was passed on from generation to generation, and the D&C account suggests that it may have been contained with the plates. We also note that brass is distinguished from steel (2nd Nephi and Jarom). It's hard to argue that when the Book of Mormon says "steel" it actually means "brass." And actually iron is distinguished from steel as well.

As to steel swords, on wikipedia I find:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword#Iron_Age
Quote:
Chinese steel swords made their first appearance in the later part of the Western Zhou Dynasty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Zhou_Dynasty
Quote:
he Western Zhōu period (1046–771 BCE) was the first half of the Zhou Dynasty of ancient China.
And:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword#Iron_Age
Quote:
The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea mentions swords of Indian iron and steel being exported from India to Greece.[20]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periplu...Erythraean_Sea
Quote:
The text has been ascribed to different dates between the 1st and 3rd centuries AD, but a mid-1st century date is now the most commonly accepted.
Given that Nephi came to possess this exquisite steel sword, what are we to make of the fact that Nephi had a bow made of steel as well? It mean that Lehi and his clan were extraordinarily wealthy. While we tend to think of the Lehi/Nephi clan as relatively small (several small families), perhaps that needs to be rethought. Perhaps the clan was many times larger. A tribe. Certainly the Book of Mormon account implies a rapid population expansion by the time Nephi dies, that could be explained by much greater starting numbers.

Not all fine steel necessarily lasts very long. I bought a fixed-blade knife made of Swedish steel. I cut something up on a campout with it. When I woke up the next morning, it was rusty. It turns out it was not stainless steel. Steel weapons would be expected to degrade and rust much like iron.

Thus, I believe archaeological expectations derived from the Book of Mormon posit earlier production of steel swords and bows in the Old World than is now currently recognized, and the production of steel in the New World.

Time will tell.
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post

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The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea mentions swords of Indian iron and steel being exported from India to Greece.[20]
Time will tell.
Nibley mentions that Lehi contact with the Greeks in his trade, since there are two Greek names in the Book of Mormon (Timothy, Lachoneus). But it was Laban's sword, not Lehi's.
Laban was a wealthy merchant too?
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:58 AM   #6
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Was Lehi wealthy?

1 Nephi 3
Quote:
16 Wherefore, let us be faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord; therefore let us go down to the land of our father’s ainheritance, for behold he left gold and silver, and all manner of riches. And all this he hath done because of the bcommandments of the Lord.
And then the description that Lehi's wealth was so great as to cause Laban, who was very wealthy, to lust after it.

Was Laban wealthy? There is no question that Laban was wealthy and powerful.

1 Nephi 3
Quote:
25 And it came to pass that when Laban saw our property, and that it was exceedingly great, he did alust after it, insomuch that he thrust us out, and sent his servants to slay us, that he might obtain our property.
Quote:
31 And after the angel had departed, Laman and Lemuel again began to amurmur, saying: How is it possible that the Lord will deliver Laban into our hands? Behold, he is a mighty man, and he can command fifty, yea, even he can slay fifty; then why not us?
1 Nephi 4
Quote:
1 And it came to pass that I spake unto my brethren, saying: Let us go up again unto Jerusalem, and let us be afaithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord; for behold he is mightier than all the earth, then why not bmightier than Laban and his fifty, yea, or even than his tens of thousands?
Quote:
20 And after I had done this, I went forth unto the treasury of Laban. And as I went forth towards the treasury of Laban, behold, I saw the aservant of Laban who had the keys of the treasury. And I commanded him in the voice of Laban, that he should go with me into the treasury.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:47 PM   #7
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The Book of Enoch has references to metal smithing for war purposes:

Quote:
1 And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all 2 colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they 3 were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjaza taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, 'Armaros the resolving of enchantments, Baraqijal (taught) astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . .
http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.php?id=2126

1 Enoch 8
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:10 PM   #8
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it's not a question of whether metal was being used. Obviously it was. The question is what kind of metal. The use of steel in 600 BC would be very early use, thus the criticism.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:38 PM   #9
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oops
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