Proposition 8 take a break..we can reach our destination..but we're still a ways away

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I can agree with that.

By the way, would you include blacks among those that are allowed to be barred?

Ha...you slippery snake...I knew you would bring that up.

It is a fair point. No, of course I would not include blacks. Nor would I mind if gays adopted.

My concern is the fact that the state is mandating it. It is for the churches to choose their doctrine for themselves. As long as they do not accept state funds or assistance, they should be allowed to provide adoption services for their congregations.

But again, I feel the need to reiterate that the door swings the other way, too...I do not feel comfortable with the Church trying to legislate its doctrine upon others.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Ha...you slippery snake...I knew you would bring that up.

It is a fair point. No, of course I would not include blacks. Nor would I mind if gays adopted.

My concern is the fact that the state is mandating it. It is for the churches to choose their doctrine for themselves. As long as they do not accept state funds or assistance, they should be allowed to provide adoption services for their congregations.

But again, I feel the need to reiterate that the door swings the other way, too...I do not feel comfortable with the Church trying to legislate its doctrine upon others.

So you do in fact approve of the state intruding upon private adoptions, in that the state can ban blacks from being discriminated against.

Ok, good we got that out of the way.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

So you do in fact approve of the state intruding upon private adoptions, in that the state can ban blacks from being discriminated against.

Ok, good we got that out of the way.

Please reclarify so that I can be 100% sure of what you are saying. Not sure what your point is here.

[TripletDaddy]

So all wards across California received the Prop 8 lesson today during P-hood, RS, and combined YM/YW. I cannot confirm if it actually happened statewide, but can confirm that it was supposed to happen.

Teachers were instructed to use a prior GC talk (i linked it previously) and tie it into Prop 8, but there was no set lesson.

I attended EQ and was basically underwhelmed....disappointed, actually.

A few people shared enlightening statistics: the decline of heterosexual marriage in Norway; another person referenced "all the studies" that show that gays sexually abuse their kids.

The teacher said that "things will get worse" if gay marriage comes to pass and cited things like "broken homes," "abortion," and "promiscuity."

One guy raised his hand and explained that his daughter is good friends with a girl who has lesbian parents. He said that this girl was one of the greatest, well-adjusted, bright children that he knows, and easily their favorite of all his daughter's friends. He said the mothers are also very nice and extremely involved in the life of their adopted daughter.

Kind of took the wind out of the lesson's sails.

The lesson ended with each of us taking a turn reading some selected chapter headings in Deuteronomy.....28, 29, etc....the ones that basically state that Israel was destroyed for disobedience and blessed for obedience. I guess that is the best we have on this topic at this point.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

So all wards across California received the Prop 8 lesson today during P-hood, RS, and combined YM/YW. I cannot confirm if it actually happened statewide, but can confirm that it was supposed to happen.

Teachers were instructed to use a prior GC talk (i linked it previously) and tie it into Prop 8, but there was no set lesson.

I attended EQ and was basically underwhelmed....disappointed, actually.

A few people shared enlightening statistics: the decline of heterosexual marriage in Norway; another person referenced "all the studies" that show that gays sexually abuse their kids.

The teacher said that "things will get worse" if gay marriage comes to pass and cited things like "broken homes," "abortion," and "promiscuity."

One guy raised his hand and explained that his daughter is good friends with a girl who has lesbian parents. He said that this girl was one of the greatest, well-adjusted, bright children that he knows, and easily their favorite of all his daughter's friends. He said the mothers are also very nice and extremely involved in the life of their adopted daughter.

Kind of took the wind out of the lesson's sails.

The lesson ended with each of us taking a turn reading some selected chapter headings in Deuteronomy.....28, 29, etc....the ones that basically state that Israel was destroyed for disobedience and blessed for obedience. I guess that is the best we have on this topic at this point.

I love your misery. Love it.

My copy of Tropic of Cancer says on the back cover that the book was banned in the United States from its publicationin 1927 until 1961. That's how far we've come--Tropic of Cancer banned 47 years ago, a classsic today, no. 50 on the TIME 100 greatest novels.

Meanwhile, the LDS Church is still back there pre-1961. And it's getting routed. Annihilated. What I love about this--including the Gettysburgh analogy--is the self-delusion. This is a campaign doomed inevitably to fail, and absent the nightmare scenario. Than what? I'll tell you what, they'll assimilate rather than be pariahs, as always.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I love your misery. Love it.

My copy of Tropic of Cancer says on the back cover that the book was banned in the United States from its publicationin 1927 until 1961. That's how far we've come--Tropic of Cancer banned 47 years ago, a classsic today, no. 50 on the TIME 100 greatest novels.

Meanwhile, the LDS Church is still back there pre-1961. And it's getting routed. Annihilated. What I love about this--including the Gettysburgh analogy--is the self-delusion. This is a campaign doomed inevitably to fail, and absent the nightmare scenario. Than what? I'll tell you what, they'll assimilate rather than be pariahs, as always.

You are being mean, but it is hard to disagree with you on this one: Tropic of Cancer is a great book.

This Prop 8 initiative is the Y2K for the Church in this decade......we are warned and hyped about the impending destruction that will accompany gay marriage.....yet it is already legal in California and Massachusetts and nothing bad has happened.

However, to be fair, I am a believer (I know you are not, at least not in the same sense as a traditional LDS believer) and I still wonder.....does this man that I sustain as a Seer....does he see something that we all do not? What if he really does? What IF this time it is not a "blacks were less valiant," or "interracial couples are going to hell" or some other equally off-base teaching? What if this time, it is the real deal?

As a believer, I cannot say, with any real confidence, that the Seer is wrong. I can only say that it is possible that he is wrong. But it is also possible that he is right.

It is a tough issue for sure, but I do not disagree with your point...the Church has taken some social stances in the past that were less than amazing. It is possible that this is another such stance.

As King Lear said, "Pray, do not mock me....I fear I am not in my perfect mind."

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

yet it is already legal in California and Massachusetts and nothing bad has happened.

Ahem, I haven't seen the sun nor have I been able to breathe in over a month now. We all know the fires were the result of the legalization of gay marriage.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

Ahem, I haven't seen the sun nor have I been able to breathe in over a month now. We all know the fires were the result of the legalization of gay marriage.

BESIDES the natural disasters, I mean.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I love your misery. Love it.

My copy of Tropic of Cancer says on the back cover that the book was banned in the United States from its publicationin 1927 until 1961. That's how far we've come--Tropic of Cancer banned 47 years ago, a classsic today, no. 50 on the TIME 100 greatest novels.

Meanwhile, the LDS Church is still back there pre-1961. And it's getting routed. Annihilated. What I love about this--including the Gettysburgh analogy--is the self-delusion. This is a campaign doomed inevitably to fail, and absent the nightmare scenario. Than what? I'll tell you what, they'll assimilate rather than be pariahs, as always.

Seattle, an honest question for you. Please have the balls to answer:

Why can't you let it go?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Seattle, an honest question for you. Please have the balls to answer:

Why can't you let it go?

What's your problem? Follow your own advice, if you can't say anything intelligent in response. I find this whole grotesque spectacle interesting, for obvious reasons. You wouldn't?