Let me ask one of the forbidden questions...

[Colly Wolly]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I would ignore our interpretation of prophesy, and stop trying to force round pegs into square holes. WE made a mistake making the Jewish homeland in Palestine.

Even the "Ugandan" option, actually Kenya would have been better and so would Africa had prospered. Try not to fulfill ambiguous prophecy but try to do what is good and right.

See my edited post above. Jews had long since been gathering in the Holy Land prior to 1948. What else made sense? Shipping them all to Africa or Argentina?

This conversation is completely ignoring the role that the Jews themselves played in the establishment of the Jewish state (Ben Gurion, et al).

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Colly Wolly

See my edited post above. Jews had long since been gathering in the Holy Land prior to 1948. What else made sense? Shipping them all to Africa or Argentina?

This conversation is completely ignoring the role that the Jews themselves played in the establishment of the Jewish state (Ben Gurion, et al).

Well since the first aliyah, but we could have influenced them. It's not as if they have their own army or means of support. Where would they be without US and British support?

[Colly Wolly]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Whenever you feel like you have to kill, rape, or torture someone in order to fulfill a prophecy or divine command, I suggest you pause and reconsider.

Agreed on the rape and torture part (don't know how those things are relevant), but not the killing. People have killed in the name of God fighting for God's (rightly and wrongly) for a long time. Do you need examples of the "rightly"?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Colly Wolly

Agreed on the rape and torture part (don't know how those things are relevant), but not the killing. People have killed in the name of God fighting for God's (rightly and wrongly) for a long time. Do you need examples of the "rightly"?

I'm not a big fan of invasions to retake land lost centuries ago. That sort of killing was unnecessary except due to imperial aspirations.

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by Colly Wolly

Agreed on the rape and torture part (don't know how those things are relevant), but not the killing. People have killed in the name of God fighting for God's (rightly and wrongly) for a long time. Do you need examples of the "rightly"?

Yes ,this holy return to holy place by holy people Must be done through mass murder ,i agree!

[Colly Wolly]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Well since the first aliyah, but we could have influenced them. It's not as if they have their own army or means of support. Where would they be without US and British support?

I'll concede you know more about the history of the establishment of modern Israel than I do. That said, how in the hell did Israel fight off (and soundly defeat) it's neighbors immediately following the declaration of the Jewish state? Did they have tanks and weapons on loan from Britain? Israel's military infrastructure was intact and prepared. They fought that (and subsequent conflicts) on their own, with their own resources and alot of material aid from the west.

But my goodness, how can we shake our heads at helping them out? It was/is a noble undertaking and I'm glad we did it.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by mindfulcoug

Yes ,this holy return to holy place by holy people Must be done through mass murder ,i agree!

See Muslims, Jews and fundamentalist Christians can agree on something. The masses are asses and mass murder beats peace.

[Colly Wolly]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I'm not a big fan of invasions to retake land lost centuries ago. That sort of killing was unnecessary except due to imperial aspirations.

What are we talking about here? Jews were already gathered - peacefully right? Were there genocides and mass killings of Palestians and Jews prior to 1948? Honest question.

They declare independence and a Jewish state, and they get bum rushed. They kick ass. And they're the bad guys?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Colly Wolly

I'll concede you know more about the history of the establishment of modern Israel than I do. That said, how in the hell did Israel fight off (and soundly defeat) it's neighbors immediately following the declaration of the Jewish state? Did they have tanks and weapons on loan from Britain? Israel's military infrastructure was intact and prepared. They fought that (and subsequent conflicts) on their own, with their own resources and alot of material aid from the west.

But my goodness, how can we shake our heads at helping them out? It was/is a noble undertaking and I'm glad we did it.

The fought bravely with the help of Britain and us but they fought hard. However, I can't consider the establishment of the Israeli a noble accomplishment. Once done, we need not abandon them, but I don't find the invasion and the Zionist movement our finest hour. We'd be better off had it not occurred. Imagine, peaceful access to oil, not need to send billions to aid Israel, and perhaps no terrorists there or abroad. Now, they would fight amongst themselves due to despotic governments and oppression of their own. But we'd be out of it.

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

See Muslims, Jews and fundamentalist Christians can agree on something. The masses are asses and mass murder beats peace.

of course ,and it exactly shows we have the same creator and the same origin and we should better stop this silly war against our own soul and be just.