"The Davises" (Yikes!) - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

SeattleUte · 03-11-2006, 09:17 PM

Just today I heard on NPR a profile of a family in Salt Lake City with a fictional name, "the Davises"--thirty-five year old man, three wives, twenty-one kids from 15 years to 15 days old, and one on the way. They call themselves "fundamentalist Mormons." The original wife is 36 years old, and the other two are thirty-five year old twin sisters. The narrator (a woman) said the wives are all "pretty". That was an interesting way to describe women in their mid-thirties; I pictured pioneer dress, etc. But when she talked to them they sounded modern, articulate, educated, and possessing feminist sensibilities. The original, only legal, wife has a career (unidentified in the piece). "Mr. Davis" as well sounded intelligent and normal. They talked to a few kids and they were learned in popular culture and sounded like ordinary kids.

The narrator lived with them for a couple of days, and overall the profile was very positive or impressive. It all sounded too good to be true. The only possible crack in the veneer I detected was when the narrator asked the original, legal wife if she ever grew jealous. I detected a tremor in her voice when she said, "Yes, I'm wired like every other woman." But, she added, she is able to pull through such moments through a prevailing ethic of trust and an atmoshpere of spirituality that are pillars of their family. The narrator also noted they are closely integrated into a larger community of "fundamentalist Mormons," and each of the subjects of the piece greew up in fundamentalist families.

Following the piece a discussion ensued in which, partially through clips of interviews with other women in plural marriages, the narrator and the NPR anchor woman sought to show that the stories of incest, abuse, and welfare fraud are "stereotypes" and don't do justice to the successful, moral, spiritual polygamous families such as the Davises. They went so far as to highlight how many people disagree that polygamy is anti-feminist, anti-woman.

I was very surprised at the positive presentation of a polygamous family, on NPR of all places. Then it occurred to me that this may be very bad for mainstream Mormonism because most the civilized world still thinks the Davises are just plain strange or bad, and a seemingly well adjusted, happy, productive family like the Davises just blurs the line between mainstream Mormonism, and fundamentalist Mormonism. In fact, if you listened closely, you might detect a note of condescension in NPR's presentation.

SoCalCoug · 03-12-2006, 03:21 AM

Here's my question about modern polygamy:

The wives after the first are not legally married to the husband, right? It's not like the husband's trying to get multiple marriage licenses by lying about being married to the first wife. He gets legally married to the first, and "married" in a religious ceremony to the subsequent wives. Is adultery illegal? If not, then what's the problem with the polygamous arrangement?

MikeWaters · 03-12-2006, 04:23 AM

I don't know what's wrong with it. The Supreme Court decision against polygamy was a joke.

SeattleUte · 03-12-2006, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

Here's my question about modern polygamy:

The wives after the first are not legally married to the husband, right? It's not like the husband's trying to get multiple marriage licenses by lying about being married to the first wife. He gets legally married to the first, and "married" in a religious ceremony to the subsequent wives. Is adultery illegal? If not, then what's the problem with the polygamous arrangement?

You are correct. They only have one marriage license, and adultery is not a crime. This is one reason the polygamy prohibitions are as a practical matter unenforeceable, no more enforceable than anti-gay laws (which have as a practical matter been ruled unconstitutional with the decisions striking down anti-sodomy laws). You also have a constitutional right of free association.

The situation is a very close parallel to the gays' situation. I had a gay neighbor from southern Utah a while back. He told me that when he was a leader of the student gay organization at one of the Southern Utah colleges polygamous women used to come in buses and help them campaign and lobby for equal access to benefits as other student groups at the school, sensing analogous situations and aligned interests.

creekster · 03-13-2006, 03:27 AM

A conservative cynic might conclude that NPR's effort is part of a well-crafted effort to legitimize non-traditional marriage arrangements, which would include same sex unions.

I have no idea if this is true, and it is not my opinion, but it is the first thiung that popped into my head whne you noted you werew surprised that it was on NPR. Your follow-on message confirms the linking of the ideas.

SeattleUte · 03-13-2006, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creekster

A conservative cynic might conclude that NPR's effort is part of a well-crafted effort to legitimize non-traditional marriage arrangements, which would include same sex unions.

I have no idea if this is true, and it is not my opinion, but it is the first thiung that popped into my head whne you noted you werew surprised that it was on NPR. Your follow-on message confirms the linking of the ideas.

I think your cynical suspicion is not far fetched.

MikeWaters · 03-13-2006, 04:40 AM

when a student group in med school was lobbying for gay marriage, (this was a local affiliate), I asked them (somewhat tongue in cheek) to also support polygamy rights.

I never heard back from them.

03-11-2006, 09:17 PM	#1
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	"The Davises" (Yikes!) Just today I heard on NPR a profile of a family in Salt Lake City with a fictional name, "the Davises"--thirty-five year old man, three wives, twenty-one kids from 15 years to 15 days old, and one on the way. They call themselves "fundamentalist Mormons." The original wife is 36 years old, and the other two are thirty-five year old twin sisters. The narrator (a woman) said the wives are all "pretty". That was an interesting way to describe women in their mid-thirties; I pictured pioneer dress, etc. But when she talked to them they sounded modern, articulate, educated, and possessing feminist sensibilities. The original, only legal, wife has a career (unidentified in the piece). "Mr. Davis" as well sounded intelligent and normal. They talked to a few kids and they were learned in popular culture and sounded like ordinary kids. The narrator lived with them for a couple of days, and overall the profile was very positive or impressive. It all sounded too good to be true. The only possible crack in the veneer I detected was when the narrator asked the original, legal wife if she ever grew jealous. I detected a tremor in her voice when she said, "Yes, I'm wired like every other woman." But, she added, she is able to pull through such moments through a prevailing ethic of trust and an atmoshpere of spirituality that are pillars of their family. The narrator also noted they are closely integrated into a larger community of "fundamentalist Mormons," and each of the subjects of the piece greew up in fundamentalist families. Following the piece a discussion ensued in which, partially through clips of interviews with other women in plural marriages, the narrator and the NPR anchor woman sought to show that the stories of incest, abuse, and welfare fraud are "stereotypes" and don't do justice to the successful, moral, spiritual polygamous families such as the Davises. They went so far as to highlight how many people disagree that polygamy is anti-feminist, anti-woman. I was very surprised at the positive presentation of a polygamous family, on NPR of all places. Then it occurred to me that this may be very bad for mainstream Mormonism because most the civilized world still thinks the Davises are just plain strange or bad, and a seemingly well adjusted, happy, productive family like the Davises just blurs the line between mainstream Mormonism, and fundamentalist Mormonism. In fact, if you listened closely, you might detect a note of condescension in NPR's presentation. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

03-12-2006, 03:21 AM	#2
SoCalCoug Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 3,059	Here's my question about modern polygamy: The wives after the first are not legally married to the husband, right? It's not like the husband's trying to get multiple marriage licenses by lying about being married to the first wife. He gets legally married to the first, and "married" in a religious ceremony to the subsequent wives. Is adultery illegal? If not, then what's the problem with the polygamous arrangement? __________________ Get your stinking paws off me, you damned, dirty Yewt! "Now perhaps as I spanked myself screaming out "Kozlowski, say it like you mean it bitch!" might have been out of line, but such was the mood." - Goatnapper "If you want to fatten a pig up to make the pig MORE delicious, you can feed it almost anything. Seriously. The pig is like the car on Back to the Future. You put in garbage, and out comes something magical!" - Cali Coug

03-12-2006, 04:23 AM	#3
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I don't know what's wrong with it. The Supreme Court decision against polygamy was a joke.

03-13-2006, 03:27 AM	#5
creekster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the far corner of my mind Posts: 8,711	A conservative cynic might conclude that NPR's effort is part of a well-crafted effort to legitimize non-traditional marriage arrangements, which would include same sex unions. I have no idea if this is true, and it is not my opinion, but it is the first thiung that popped into my head whne you noted you werew surprised that it was on NPR. Your follow-on message confirms the linking of the ideas.

03-13-2006, 04:40 AM	#7
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	when a student group in med school was lobbying for gay marriage, (this was a local affiliate), I asked them (somewhat tongue in cheek) to also support polygamy rights. I never heard back from them.