"Worthiness"...

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Adam

There is no double standard on worthiness if you just understand the hidden meaning of the word, Tex asserts.

This goes directly to the original point of this thread.

Of course Tex won't tell us, the vast unwashed masses, what "worthy" means, just what it doesn't mean. Pearl before swine in his mind no doubt.

There's no double standard, and there's no "hidden meaning" so far as I know. And it's not that "won't tell" you ... do a search on lds.org and find out what's been said about being worthy. Good grief, you waste hours peddling your own soft doctrine, surely a simple search is worth your time.

[K-dog]

I've been studying the concept of "worthiness to..." for quite some time. It is a point of interest to me because of my close connection to a family where the mother has established a matriarchy by being the only one "worthy" to receive revelation. She will tell everyone that she prayed about what they should do and it is ________. She maintains this apostate control by playing on the fact that her children aren't "worthy" to pray for their own revelations. I think the doctrine of worthiness is only important insofar as it is applied to receiving a temple recommend. Because a standard has been set for worldly entrance into God's presence. Outside of that, I don't believe you can be unworthy to receive revelation, inspiration, the Holy Ghost etc. I do believe that people who sin tend to ignore the Holy Ghost but he is not absent in an earthly sense of absence. If so, what is the purpose of the Gift of the Holy Ghost? Does always not mean always?

Anyway, I'm totally with Adam, this is a pernicious doctrine taught to control children. I'm appalled by it.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by K-dog

If so, what is the purpose of the Gift of the Holy Ghost? Does always not mean always?

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/130/23

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/121/37

[MikeWaters]

I think for some people, there may be unnecessary seeds of doubt in their mind as to whether they are worthy to go to church, take sacrament, perform ordinances or blessings, have callings, and the list goes on and on. In some ways, one's worthiness may be correlated more with personality type than it is with actual events.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by Tex

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/130/23

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/121/37

Just quoting scriptures doesn't help. In fact, one of my pet peeves is when someone assumes everyone else understands the scriptures the exact same way they do. I got the pet peeve by interacting with Larry Miller. He always does that and it drives me crazy. If you have a point, make it. Use verse to support it. Don't assume that I'll make your point for you because you cited a pair of scriptures.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by K-dog

Just quoting scriptures doesn't help. In fact, one of my pet peeves is when someone assumes everyone else understands the scriptures the exact same way they do. I got the pet peeve by interacting with Larry Miller. He always does that and it drives me crazy. If you have a point, make it. Use verse to support it. Don't assume that I'll make your point for you because you cited a pair of scriptures.

Did you read them?

D&C 130:23 states that the Holy Ghost may not tarry with a man.
D&C 121:37 states the the spirit of the Lord can withdraw from a man.

To your meaning, does this not apply to a person who has received the gift of the Holy Ghost?

[woot]

I'm knocking back a cold one right now, and I lie all the time. Among my friends I have a reputation for being extremely honest, often to a fault, but that doesn't mean that I never lie. Everybody lies. There are simply times when it is culturally acceptable and times when it is not. Just like drinking beer.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by Tex

Did you read them?

D&C 130:23 states that the Holy Ghost may not tarry with a man.
D&C 121:37 states the the spirit of the Lord can withdraw from a man.

To your meaning, does this not apply to a person who has received the gift of the Holy Ghost?

I don't think it applies to the gift of the Holy Ghost. Notice the sacrament prayer refers to us "having his spirit to be with us ALWAYS." If the HG withdraws from people who have the gift of the HG, why both getting the gift? He can influence you just fine without the gift.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by K-dog

I don't think it applies to the gift of the Holy Ghost. Notice the sacrament prayer refers to us "having his spirit to be with us ALWAYS." If the HG withdraws from people who have the gift of the HG, why both getting the gift? He can influence you just fine without the gift.

Two things that confuse me about this conclusion:

1. How do arrive at the conclusion that it doesn't apply? Admittedly D&C 130 doesn't specifically say, so you might have a outside point there (though I think it's a stretch). But D&C 121 is talking about those who hold the priesthood ... presumably those who have been confirmed, no?

2. I think you are misunderstanding the sacrament prayers. "That they may always have his Spirit to with them" has several antecedents: conditions, if you will. In other words, "if you do these things, the Spirit will always be with you."

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Tex

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/121/37

Amen to the priesthood of everyone on CG. Amen to the priesthood of everyone I've ever met.