(Im)mutability of cross-gender attraction? - Page 3 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

SeattleUte · 08-20-2008, 05:33 PM

What's your mission here, AA. To convince us that sexual preference is hopeless? To convince us that it's a real live issue? On either count, forget it. Go to an evangelical site.

Indy Coug · 08-20-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

What's your mission here, AA. To convince us that sexual preference is hopeless? To convince is that it's a real live issue? On either count, forget it. Go to an evangelical site.

He's trying to shake you out of your binary world, you nitwit.

SeattleUte · 08-20-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

He's trying to shake you out of your binary world, you nitwit.

Binary. The favorite word of the Sunstone set. I don't buy it. I tried to find that usage on the Internet and couldn't find it. I regard it as just more Mormon newspeak. How's that for irony?

All-American · 08-20-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

What's your mission here, AA. To convince us that sexual preference is hopeless? To convince is that it's a real live issue? On either count, forget it. Go to an evangelical site.

My mission is to understand the phenomenon, what causes it, what factors contribute to its expression, and what all of the above means as it pertains to the issue at hand of Proposition 8 and other similar laws sure to come.

To be perfectly honest, I am not trying to convince anybody of anything, except that the convictions that many of us on BOTH sides of the fence hold may not square away with what scientists, psychologists, and research are suggesting. I am asking people here to reference what they can of that body of information, to address it, and make whatever reconciliations of their world view might be necessary as a result.

All-American · 08-20-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

He's trying to shake you out of your binary world, you nitwit.

Perhaps not. I'm just as willing to be shaken out of mine, if that's where the road leads.

ute4ever · 08-20-2008, 05:47 PM

SU, I'm just wondering what the total dollar amount is that you plan to bill your clients for the time spent creating this thread, and reading and adding additional responses, while concurrently "working on their cases."

Indy Coug · 08-20-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-American

Perhaps not. I'm just as willing to be shaken out of mine, if that's where the road leads.

I don't see your position as an either/or proposition. You are taking an open minded approach to sexual preference; willing to formulate a position based on all the information available. Am I mistaken?

SU, however, is as intransigent as they come.

All-American · 08-20-2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I don't see your position as an either/or proposition. You are taking an open minded approach to sexual preference; willing to formulate a position based on all the information available. Am I mistaken?

SU, however, is as intransigent as they come.

I think the question is far more complicated than an either/or proposition would allow. And I am on no proselyting crusade. That's one of the reasons I had hoped to avoid the back and forth that goes on over this stuff. Once lines are drawn, it becomes an issue of who can win the argument over what is actually going on; "who's right," not "what's right."

So I'm dropping the sword on this one and asking, in all sincerity, what's going on?

BYUHoopster · 08-20-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I think you're still trying to set up the wrong test, or at least an incomplete one. I don't think anyone ever chooses to feel an emotion, urge or desire. They chose what they do in response to that emotion,urge or desire, unless you don't believe in the concept of free will. I think those who say that it is "mutable" are only really saying that one can learn not to act on those desires anyway.

So I still say that the only question is whether, in the case of gay marriage, there are the reasons, moral or otherwise, to allow it or not allow it. Maybe you can persuade me I am wrong, however. Can you think of some other action which is the result immutable emotion, urge or desire (because it is feelings that define homosexuality and heterosexuality) that we protect or at least do not prohibit solely on that basis? I can't think of anything but there could certainly be something obvious I have overlooked.

I agree with Dan, here, and have noticed that his post has been conveniently overlooked. Why does it matters what desires or urges or whatever you want to call it people are born with? Are we not taught to put off the natural man or in otherwords control those natural desires? Just because I want to have sex with a man or a woman doesn't make it right because I was born with that desire. The argument that homosexuality is immutable or not has never made sense to me because it doesn't matter.

Indy Coug · 08-20-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYUHoopster

The argument that homosexuality is immutable or not has never made sense to me because it doesn't matter.

It matters inasmuch as determining how to treat or cope with same-sex attraction.

08-20-2008, 05:33 PM	#21
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	What's your mission here, AA. To convince us that sexual preference is hopeless? To convince us that it's a real live issue? On either count, forget it. Go to an evangelical site. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster Last edited by SeattleUte; 08-20-2008 at 05:41 PM.

08-20-2008, 05:47 PM	#26
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	SU, I'm just wondering what the total dollar amount is that you plan to bill your clients for the time spent creating this thread, and reading and adding additional responses, while concurrently "working on their cases."