hey robin couple questions.... - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

fusnik11 · 01-19-2006, 09:28 PM

i think you have been a solid addition here. this site truly is rock solid and i believe its gotten better with your addition.....

that being said a couple of questions about you. i recall reading before you served a mission, lost your testimony at byu and somewhere in there got married in the temple? is this correct?

did you lose your testimony, (i hate that expression sorry to use it) before you were married?

how did your wife deal with the fact that you in essence lied to her (some could interpret what you did that way) when you revealed to her that you no longer believed in the lds faith?

Robin · 01-20-2006, 12:01 AM

r.f.

Alkili · 01-20-2006, 12:15 AM

So it was more of a "never had" situation as opposed to a "fell away". Are you now more of an atheist? I still think you have a bit of an arbitrary moral system, but I guess thats what you have to go by if you don't have anything other then yourself to fall back on. (Thats not meant as a shot at you or your beliefs)

Robin · 01-20-2006, 12:31 AM

r.f.

Alkili · 01-20-2006, 02:23 AM

What about BYU made you lose your testimony, Was it the students, the teachers, your leader, our leaders?

What about the stance of the church is so hard to talk about with your friend. I really don't understand why gay members leave the church other then they just give up on trying to overcome what may be one of the most difficult situations imaginable. Many people struggle with hard things in their lives, I know I do.

non sequitur · 01-20-2006, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alkili

What about the stance of the church is so hard to talk about with your friend. I really don't understand why gay members leave the church other then they just give up on trying to overcome what may be one of the most difficult situations imaginable. Many people struggle with hard things in their lives, I know I do.

I'm pretty sure the lesbian in question was not a member of the Church. I'm also pretty sure that one of the things that bothers Robin is the attitude that someone who is a lesbian has something to overcome. It's an attitude that also bothers me.

Alkili · 01-20-2006, 02:56 AM

That makes a lot of sense to me, I can understand how that bothers some people. I guess its all just about perspective, I believe that the God is the one who has set the limits that we need to adhere to.

I guess it must really hard to have someone tell you that something that is as natural as sex is a sin. Its probably going to be a stumbling block for many people, unless its changed, which I doubt will ever happen.

non sequitur · 01-20-2006, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alkili

I guess it must really hard to have someone tell you that something that is as natural as sex is a sin. Its probably going to be a stumbling block for many people, unless its changed, which I doubt will ever happen.

There was a kid in my ward growing up who was gay. His dad had been the bishop and the stake president. He was a great kid. Went to BYU, served a mission, came back and tried to reconcile his homosexuality with his faith. He eventually ended up killing himself. It was such a shame, because he was one of the nicest people you could ever know. Seeing what he went through and seeing the attitudes of most in the Church towards homosexuals makes me disappointed that so many people who profess to love their fellow man can have so much antipathy for people that happen to be gay.

Alkili · 01-20-2006, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

There was a kid in my ward growing up who was gay. His dad had been the bishop and the stake president. He was a great kid. Went to BYU, served a mission, came back and tried to reconcile his homosexuality with his faith. He eventually ended up killing himself. It was such a shame, because he was one of the nicest people you could ever know. Seeing what he went through and seeing the attitudes of most in the Church towards homosexuals makes me disappointed that so many people who profess to love their fellow man can have so much antipathy for people that happen to be gay.

After talking this over with my wife I agree with you. I spent about 5 minutes just trying to think what it would be like to be gay and in the church. It doesn't suprise me that so few can do it. I was taught that I shouldn't have sex until I was married, but at the same time I was taught that it was natural and good for me to have these feelings. Homosexuals are taught that everything about them is unnatural and wrong. I would think that the most natural end solution for them to come to would be that the church must be wrong.

I don't see many ways out of that line of thinking, It may be similar to people who have mental illnesses.

SoCalCoug · 01-20-2006, 06:07 AM

Quote:

There was a kid in my ward growing up who was gay. His dad had been the bishop and the stake president. He was a great kid. Went to BYU, served a mission, came back and tried to reconcile his homosexuality with his faith.

That's just like my brother's story. We're 13 months apart in age, I was a little small for my age, and he was a little tall for his, so people always thought we were twins. In other words, our environment growing up was virtually identical. With two exceptions.

I'm not sure how these incidents relate to his homosexuality, but it has been discussed among our brothers and sisters: He was molested as a child by two different people.

We had a babysitter, who was a teenage girl in our ward. Several times, apparently, she stripped naked in our house and made him fondle her. When we were older, in middle school and high school, he brought this up a few times, but I never realized the impact it had on him. She's now off and married in the temple, raising her own family.

We had a neighbor kid who was a few years older than us. His mom joined the church when we were about 7 or 8. He, I think, was in high school. In our neighborhood at that time (mid- to late 70's) there was sort of a fad (I think someone was able to get them from their work) to get old airplane nose cones, cut a hole in them, and turn them into little playhouses. This neighbor kid on several occasions took my brother into the nose cone in our backyard and molested him. The molester has since committed suicide. I never knew about this until only a few years ago.

Many times I have questioned why I was allowed to be oblivious to all of this, while he suffered. It was probably about 4 or 5 years ago that he finally admitted to himself that he was gay, and came out of the closet to our family. In the many discussions he had with my parents about this, he attributed his lack of interest in girls, at least in part, to those incidents. They really messed him up psychologically. Right under our noses, and without anyone realizing it.

He fought against his lack of sexual desire for women for a long time. In fact, I had always been jealous of him, because the girls seemed (because they actually did) to like him a lot more than they liked me. He had quite a number of girlfriends over the years, even coming close to being engaged, but he just couldn't make the relationships go anywhere.

He has accepted his homosexuality, and he has a partner, who is also formerly LDS. I think they have registered as domestic partners. I don't think my parents know about him, but I have visited with him many times, and he's a great guy. I actually like him much better than one of my brothers-in-law.

I've seen the struggles he's gone through with this. I often have wondered what would have happened to me had these things happened. I also have wondered if he would have had an easier time about admitting his feelings if the church members around him would have been more tolerant of homosexuality. I don't know if it's something that can change in someone, but if it is, it would seem that anything becomes much more difficult to change the longer it exists.

This is one of the reasons why I hate the gay-bashing, "Hate the sin but love the sinner" shit that goes on all the time on CB. Do people not realize that their attitudes may be causing LDS homosexuals to fail to seek the support and counseling they need to help them better deal with their situation? Maybe it's a little harsh, but I feel the gay bashers in the church are not completely innocent of the blame for LDS members who have committed suicide after struggling with their homosexuality in isolation, for fear of discussing it with anyone.

Sorry about the rant. I obviously have strong feelings about the issue.

01-19-2006, 09:28 PM	#1
fusnik11 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,506	hey robin couple questions.... i think you have been a solid addition here. this site truly is rock solid and i believe its gotten better with your addition..... that being said a couple of questions about you. i recall reading before you served a mission, lost your testimony at byu and somewhere in there got married in the temple? is this correct? did you lose your testimony, (i hate that expression sorry to use it) before you were married? how did your wife deal with the fact that you in essence lied to her (some could interpret what you did that way) when you revealed to her that you no longer believed in the lds faith?

01-20-2006, 12:01 AM	#2
Robin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 961	Re: hey robin couple questions.... r.f.

01-20-2006, 12:15 AM	#3
Alkili Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 263	So it was more of a "never had" situation as opposed to a "fell away". Are you now more of an atheist? I still think you have a bit of an arbitrary moral system, but I guess thats what you have to go by if you don't have anything other then yourself to fall back on. (Thats not meant as a shot at you or your beliefs) __________________ Dark is the Night, but I begin to see the light.

01-20-2006, 02:23 AM	#5
Alkili Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 263	What about BYU made you lose your testimony, Was it the students, the teachers, your leader, our leaders? What about the stance of the church is so hard to talk about with your friend. I really don't understand why gay members leave the church other then they just give up on trying to overcome what may be one of the most difficult situations imaginable. Many people struggle with hard things in their lives, I know I do. __________________ Dark is the Night, but I begin to see the light.

01-20-2006, 02:56 AM	#7
Alkili Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 263	That makes a lot of sense to me, I can understand how that bothers some people. I guess its all just about perspective, I believe that the God is the one who has set the limits that we need to adhere to. I guess it must really hard to have someone tell you that something that is as natural as sex is a sin. Its probably going to be a stumbling block for many people, unless its changed, which I doubt will ever happen. __________________ Dark is the Night, but I begin to see the light.

01-20-2006, 12:31 AM	#4
Robin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 961	r.f.