Baseball Baptism Fever

[SeattleUte]

By "quid pro quo" I didn't mean to say we ever gave them anything. They were just poor innocent people who were dazzled by rich gringos and we took advantage of really just for some kind of ephemeral pat on the back and promotion from our leaders. My MP really created kind of a noble class out of ZL's, just to egg us on. We had monthly conventions at the home office, etc. As with the priesthood ban teaching I consider the young missionaries among the victims of abuse along with the "converts."

[MikeWaters]

maybe we should stop baptizing children of record, because of the huge inactivity rates later.

anyone agree?

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by creekster

My mission was rebounding from a time of lax stds for baptisms and missionary behavior.

Wow, the mission was rebounding from STDs caused by bad missionary behavior?

I hope the missionaries got treated and instructed on safe sex.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

Wow, the mission was rebounding from STDs caused by bad missionary behavior?

I hope the missionaries got treated and instructed on safe sex.

LOL. No, they didn't need treatment. The stds were lax.

[OrangeUte]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Nobody knew what baseball was in Italy during the 80s. I suppose it would have to be called soccer baptism, eh?

My MP was not a numbers guy. He just asked that we do our best. If our entire mission reached double figures in baptisms in a month, it was considered miraculous.

in my dad's mission, they used basketball rather than baseball. it started out as a pretty basic plan - meet kids, and hope to meet the parents through the kids. then, the whole thing exploded b/c the missionaries got accolades from the numbers. like many things, over time this program just degenerated. i wish someone would have looked at this program and thought - really, we're going to use sports to use kids to get into houses to teach? sounds worse than amway, imo.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

maybe we should stop baptizing children of record, because of the huge inactivity rates later.

anyone agree?

Yes.

[MikeWaters]

i was just kidding about not baptizing children of record. for one, parents must give approval, and two, presumably the kid has been taught a thing or two.

Now, I would have LOVED some aspects of basketball baptisms. Namely, the playing of basketball, instead of the walking and biking around wondering if I was going to meet someone that wanted to talk to me about the actual church. That is, if I could have used basketball to teach about the church, I would have loved that. Of course, the trickery, deception and lies I could have gone without.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

i was just kidding about not baptizing children of record. for one, parents must give approval, and two, presumably the kid has been taught a thing or two.

Now, I would have LOVED some aspects of basketball baptisms. Namely, the playing of basketball, instead of the walking and biking around wondering if I was going to meet someone that wanted to talk to me about the actual church. That is, if I could have used basketball to teach about the church, I would have loved that. Of course, the trickery, deception and lies I could have gone without.

I don't think it's as much lies and deception as just showing almost no respect for the process, for the message and the ordinance. I actually think there's an aspect to it that speaks volumes. Actions speak louder than words, right?

In concept basketball makes a lot more sense than tracting. We used to show a film to a barrio and maybe serve refreshments. Members would bring their friends. But the mass baptisms inevitably happen with people who lack any sophistication, who have no appreciation for what they're getting themselves into, and may not even care that much. They just do it because you ask them to do it. It sounds crazy but there are people out there who are that compliant. Inevitably very poor, lacking in education, and often fallen prey to substance abuse.

It starts out with mass baptisms of kids who are, frankly, clueless. Then the leadership starts emphasizing baptizing families. But I've seen whole families who are practically childlike. Sometimes we went the next morning to take them to church and they'd be passed out drunk on the floor.

[MikeWaters]

I served amongst uneducated and extremely poor people.

But I'll be darned if it wasn't like drowning a greased big to get anyone baptized. It was *extraordinarily* difficult.

So I can attest that lack of money and education doesn't mean that someone joins up with the fancy-schmancy Americans.

My mission was like the typical mission--it was largely the outliers, the outcasts, those willing to break with tradition and social norms who were the members.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I served amongst uneducated and extremely poor people.

But I'll be darned if it wasn't like drowning a greased big to get anyone baptized. It was *extraordinarily* difficult.

So I can attest that lack of money and education doesn't mean that someone joins up with the fancy-schmancy Americans.

My mission was like the typical mission--it was largely the outliers, the outcasts, those willing to break with tradition and social norms who were the members.

I guess we were more worthy than you.

Two missionaries baptizing over 20 in a month was not unusual. My MP set 6 as a minimum. There was one guy who with a single companion did over 70 in one month. When I was in Otavalo I was ZL with another American and we oversaw six Otavalanios. we had months were we had six figures, regularly. We baptized twentysomething one night.

These people were often baptized the same night we made contact, and not knowing about Joseph Smith, first vision, anything. We'd talk about the plan of salvation, baptism, and "authority," (like "keys") in our own words.

Toward the end of my mission baptisms mysteriously plummeted. It was like a famine or a plague. My MP started demoting ZL's who didn't do anything wrong other than not baptize enough.