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Old 05-05-2008, 02:23 PM   #11
Jeff Lebowski
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Are you serious?
Yes.

Most of their theories are just stupid. This one is highly offensive.

Ditto for the flight that ended at the Pentagon. They say that it was not a plane, but a missile.
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:26 PM   #12
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is there a picture of the plane at the pentagon? I've never seen one. I would like to see one, so if someone knows a link.
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:29 PM   #13
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LOL.

Piecing together the exact sequence of events of the collapse is a forensic exercise. The NIST letter admits that they don't have a perfect understanding of 100% of the details (which is to be expected). Jones twists this around to imply that they "don't know why the towers collapsed." But the overwhelming body of evidence is that the towers collapsed due to the impact of the planes and the subsequent fires.

BTW, the NIST is only one of many groups that studied the collapse.
So I read on that site that the NIST admits that the steel they have found does not show that it reached the critical temperature. But the NIST argues that the steel is only a small sample, so that doesn't prove the fire wasn't hotter in other places.

Is there theory about how the towers went down dependent on the steel reaching a critical temperature, for which there is no physical evidence that it occurred?
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:35 PM   #14
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So I read on that site that the NIST admits that the steel they have found does not show that it reached the critical temperature. But the NIST argues that the steel is only a small sample, so that doesn't prove the fire wasn't hotter in other places.

Is there theory about how the towers went down dependent on the steel reaching a critical temperature, for which there is no physical evidence that it occurred?
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...42.html?page=6
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:37 PM   #15
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I don't have a problem with conspiracy theorists in general, because they provide a check on govt. abuses. And sometimes they are right.

I'd be much more scared to live in a universe where no one questions the official line.

Prof. Jones has a role to play. Something inside him stirred, and he must follow the dictates that the universe has given him. He might be right. He might be wrong. It's no matter. It's the path that the must follow. I don't begrudge him of it.
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:41 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
I don't have a problem with conspiracy theorists in general, because they provide a check on govt. abuses. And sometimes they are right.

I'd be much more scared to live in a universe where no one questions the official line.

Prof. Jones has a role to play. Something inside him stirred, and he must follow the dictates that the universe has given him. He might be right. He might be wrong. It's no matter. It's the path that the must follow. I don't begrudge him of it.
There are conspiratorial groups, we just never identify them correctly. And the argument that those distrusting the government give us a good balance is a fair one, but in this instance Jones and his supporters are out there.
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:47 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
I don't have a problem with conspiracy theorists in general, because they provide a check on govt. abuses. And sometimes they are right.

I'd be much more scared to live in a universe where no one questions the official line.

Prof. Jones has a role to play. Something inside him stirred, and he must follow the dictates that the universe has given him. He might be right. He might be wrong. It's no matter. It's the path that the must follow. I don't begrudge him of it.
For the most part I don't have a problem with them, but I don't like the cultish feel of some of the conspiracy folks. I'm thinking more of the Bo Gritz, militia compound in Montana types. It also seems like a majority of them are batshit crazy. They can't just believe one conspiracy theory and they see conspiracy in everything.
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
I don't have a problem with conspiracy theorists in general, because they provide a check on govt. abuses. And sometimes they are right.

I'd be much more scared to live in a universe where no one questions the official line.

Prof. Jones has a role to play. Something inside him stirred, and he must follow the dictates that the universe has given him. He might be right. He might be wrong. It's no matter. It's the path that the must follow. I don't begrudge him of it.
I have no problem at all questioning the official line. But this movement is led by lunatics. Jones has the honor of being perhaps the most highly regarded academic to throw his hat in with the nutjobs. That's quite an honor.
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:53 PM   #19
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I have no problem at all questioning the official line. But this movement is led by lunatics. Jones has the honor of being perhaps the most highly regarded academic to throw his hat in with the nutjobs. That's quite an honor.
And how has that promoted his stature amongst his colleagues?
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:51 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
From today's Deseret News:

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695275973,00.html

Basically, it is an update on the sad, pathetic journey of Steven Jones and the empty shell of his career. Like all grand-conspiracy theorists, he bounces from one dubious tidbit to the next; always finding one additional piece of minutiae to latch onto as each of his questions is systematically repudiated. What an embarrassment to BYU and Stanford.

As an example of how crazy this all is, his foil-capped groupies have been completely energized by the fact that he was finally "published in a peer-reviewed civil engineering journal". They obviously feel vindication that the "truth" is finally starting to be recognized by the scientific community. But this is more nonsense. Here is a copy of this so-called paper:

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/co...1/35TOCIEJ.SGM

First of all, this is not a well-respected civil engineering journal. This is where one goes when one is really desperate for a "peer-reviewed" publication. More importantly, this is NOT his original paper that garnered so much controversy. In fact, it is not even a research paper. It is simply a "letter" (see the abstract) outlining fourteen points where the authors agree with the NIST report and concluding with an appeal for more cooperation in the investigation. Vindication? Not even close.

Interestingly, former-Prof. Jones say he is moving to Sanpete County. I am guessing he will find a receptive audience there.
LMAO @ "foil-capped groupies." Great line.
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