This matter disturbs me about Islam

[Archaea]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188903,00.html

I recognize Christianity experienced periods of intolerance, but that was centuries ago. By making that argument, are we in fact saying that Islam is mired in the Dark Ages?

If so, will it ever rise up out of this period?

[myboynoah]

This form of intolerance is not found in Islam as a whole. It is reserved for the more extreme varieties found in South Asia and the Gulf. That said, this type of thinking appears to be found in a significant portion of the Islamic world, even if it represents the minority.

[realtall]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

This form of intolerance is not found in Islam as a whole. It is reserved for the more extreme varieties found in South Asia and the Gulf. That said, this type of thinking appears to be found in a significant portion of the Islamic world, even if it represents the minority.

Interesting statement. If what you are saying is that most muslims think this way but only a few act upon it then I can see that. The major problem that I see are the clerics(not all but enough) who continually preach their sermons of hate all the while claiming to be a religion of peace. Is it any wonder that violence & intolerance is routinely practiced by muslims against Christians?

Raoulf, who is a member of the country's main Islamic organization, the Afghan Ulama Council, concurred. "The government is playing games. The people will not be fooled."

"Cut off his head!" he exclaimed, sitting in a courtyard outside Herati Mosque. "We will call on the people to pull him into pieces so there's nothing left."

He said the only way for Rahman to survive would be for him to go into exile.

But Said Mirhossain Nasri, the top cleric at Hossainia Mosque, one of the largest Shiite places of worship in Kabul, said Rahman must not be allowed to leave the country.

"If he is allowed to live in the West, then others will claim to be Christian so they can, too," he said. "We must set an example. ... He must be hanged."

[MikeWaters]

Muslims, fundamentally, do not see religion as a free market. Period.

If they did, you would see missionaries from other religions allowed in their countries.

Increasingly, on an empiric basis, I doubt the notion that Islam is a religion of freedom, peace, and tolerance.

Sorry, Bush, not buying that one.

[Archaea]

Where is the Islamic message of peace? I haven't seen it.

The message of Islam is the sword and death to the infidel, non-believer. If significant numbers of "clerics" are shouting death because somebody doesn't believe, then this is false religion.

If the only way you retain believers is hate and intimidation, then you are an intolerant dictatorship.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by Archaea

If the only way you retain believers is hate and intimidation, then you are an intolerant dictatorship.

For a very long time, the Mormon temple ceremony contained passages about getting revenge against those who murdered Joseph Smith. It also contained gruesome descriptions of the terrible things that awaited those who would fall away from the church.

Is hate and intimidation okay, so long as the threat of that hate and intimidation only exist in the world to come?

[Colly Wolly]

Originally Posted by Robin

For a very long time, the Mormon temple ceremony contained passages about getting revenge against those who murdered Joseph Smith. It also contained gruesome descriptions of the terrible things that awaited those who would fall away from the church.

Is hate and intimidation okay, so long as the threat of that hate and intimidation only exist in the world to come?

Nice.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Muslims, fundamentally, do not see religion as a free market. Period.

If they did, you would see missionaries from other religions allowed in their countries.

Increasingly, on an empiric basis, I doubt the notion that Islam is a religion of freedom, peace, and tolerance.

Sorry, Bush, not buying that one.

I wonder how much of this is determined by the influence of local custom and culture on the practice of Islam? For example, Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, does allow missionaries from other religions. A link to The Church's Indonesian website:

English version
http://www.gerejayesuskristus.or.id/church/hp/index.asp

Indonesian version
http://www.gerejayesuskristus.or.id/church/hm/index.asp

Additionally, Christian missionaries are active throughout the Muslim world (Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, Turkey, etc.). Granted, the more fundamentalist societies (Saudi Arabia and other gulf states, Afghanistan) remain closed, and the plight of new converts from Islam is difficult even in the more tolerant states. Nonetheless, a certain level of tolerance does exist. While the teachings of Islam may militate against a "free market" approach to religious tolerance to a certain extent (what religion's teachings don't to some extent?), the level of tolerance appears to be more a factor of local customs and the "civilization" effect than Islam itself. I also wonder how much of this, particularly the intolerance found in Middle Eastern Islam, is an outgrowth of that region's mistrust and antipathy for Western political and military dominance in world affairs. Many still see the establishment of Israel as a modern day extension of The Crusades, placing a European enclave in the heart of the Middle East.

I don’t see Islam as a monolith. The puritanical Wahhabist tradition found in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan is only one shade among many.

[MikeWaters]

what percent of Muslims think the Danish cartoonists ought to be killed, I wonder?

In which countries do they look away when it comes to honor killings?

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

what percent of Muslims think the Danish cartoonists ought to be killed, I wonder?

In which countries do they look away when it comes to honor killings?

That would be an interesting study, particularly to see how responses vary across Islam.

As for honor killings, this is not unique to Islam (can be found in Latin America, the Caribbean, Africa, India for example) and I think is more a factor of the "civilization" effect. The more civilized a society becomes, the more protective it is of human rights and, naturally, more intolerant of such practices.