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05-29-2008, 02:43 PM | #1 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 69
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The question re Oslo is
why does Israel have a military presence in Gaza and the West Bank?
Because it doesn't trust that the PLO/Fatah/Hamas will do enough (or... anything) to prevent terrorist attacks... which gets back to its correct belief that none of those governing factions are really committed to Israel's right to exist. The first thing Israel demanded in the Oslo accords - as a backdrop for trust and concessions - was that the PLO constitutionally acknowledge and commit itself to Israel's right to exist. The PLO agreed to do this... and never did. To this day it never found its way into any PLO/Fatah document. Which left Israel thinking (fairly) - they do not acknowledge our right to exist and therefore we can only assume they remain committed to our destruction, therefore we cannot cede these territories which will be used to attack our civilians to their control. But for the record - I am in total agreement that many of the West Bank settlements need to go. By force if necessary. Ironically, so are a majority of Israelis. |
05-29-2008, 02:44 PM | #2 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 69
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"The American diplomat"... who was trusted and
befriended by Arafat. Again mate - stop dealing in simplifications.
He makes the case. Stop pretending you can dismiss the case with an offhand reference to him being an American. |
05-29-2008, 03:15 PM | #3 | ||
Charon
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Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo)
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Quote:
Quote:
Good for you. Then I am going to assume that you agree that the theft of water is immoral also.
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"... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr. Last edited by Jeff Lebowski; 05-29-2008 at 03:33 PM. |
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05-29-2008, 04:16 PM | #4 | |
Charon
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo)
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Quote:
`If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country, It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?' - David Ben-Gurion
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"... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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05-29-2008, 04:24 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between Iraq and a hard place
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Were the Israelites justifed in seizing the Promised Land during the Exodus? Certainly, this 20th century "takeover" has been a lot more humane than the one 3,000+ years ago.
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05-29-2008, 04:26 PM | #6 | |
Demiurge
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,365
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Quote:
If Monson asks me to kill men, women and children to possess their lands, I would hope that I would refuse, and call it what it is: murder and genocide. |
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05-29-2008, 04:31 PM | #7 |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
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If that is even how it happened. Do you really wish to rely upon tradition later recorded as scripture especially if the devil is in the details?
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Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα |
05-29-2008, 04:37 PM | #8 |
Charon
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You know you are on shaky moral and logical ground when the best you can do is point to major historical injustices and say "See, that was worse."
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"... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr. |
05-29-2008, 04:38 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
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Location: Between Iraq and a hard place
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The beginning of the moral ground is the possibility that the initial seizure of the Promised Land in the Old Testament had a divine seal of approval.
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05-29-2008, 04:41 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
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Nice doggy. Go back into your kennel now.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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