UFC vs Pride - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Archaea · 01-07-2007, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Agreed, which is why it would depend on what rules were in place for the fight.

I hadn't thought about the gloves. Smaller gloves would, IMO be a benefit to the boxers because of their punching power.

Did you ever give a report of the fight you went to last weekend? If so, I must have missed it.

I was waiting until all the booze and boobs had worn off.

MikeWaters · 01-07-2007, 05:09 AM

I haven't seen UFC or Pride, but my ex-pro boxing friend told me it is no coincidence that Liddell is the most boxer-like.

This same guy used to kickbox. And he said the boxers would destroy the martial arts guys. Kicking gets you off balance.

He said at the beginning of the round he would kick the required minimum (5?), and then just box the rest of the time.

Gatti in his prime against Lidell? I've never seen Liddell fight, but I think it would be foolish to say that a boxer couldn't win, even a mediocre one like Gatti.

MikeWaters · 01-07-2007, 05:13 AM

Just watched this:

I'd say someone like Mayweather would destroy either of these guys. I would bet my house on that.

Archaea · 01-07-2007, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I haven't seen UFC or Pride, but my ex-pro boxing friend told me it is no coincidence that Liddell is the most boxer-like.

This same guy used to kickbox. And he said the boxers would destroy the martial arts guys. Kicking gets you off balance.

He said at the beginning of the round he would kick the required minimum (5?), and then just box the rest of the time.

Gatti in his prime against Lidell? I've never seen Liddell fight, but I think it would be foolish to say that a boxer couldn't win, even a mediocre one like Gatti.

If one had the same level of athlete as those in boxing, then the martial arts would win.

Boxers know power transfer, but within the rules. If you're allowed to kick, scratch, choke and submit, all of those matter.

In reality, I believe this to be true. Whoever is most skilled in his art or arts would win.

RockyBalboa · 01-07-2007, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I haven't seen UFC or Pride, but my ex-pro boxing friend told me it is no coincidence that Liddell is the most boxer-like.

This same guy used to kickbox. And he said the boxers would destroy the martial arts guys. Kicking gets you off balance.

He said at the beginning of the round he would kick the required minimum (5?), and then just box the rest of the time.

Gatti in his prime against Lidell? I've never seen Liddell fight, but I think it would be foolish to say that a boxer couldn't win, even a mediocre one like Gatti.

Gatti would last about 30 seconds, if that, against Liddell.

MikeWaters · 01-07-2007, 12:58 PM

I've watched snippets from a couple of UFC/Pride fights now, and I've seen maybe one kick. Kicking is worthless.

You see rather average punching from Liddell also (by boxing standards). He's muscle bound, which may serve him in wrestling (??), but wouldn't serve him in boxing. Didn't see any impressive combinations.

Gatti is not a very good boxer. Just an entertaining boxer. Someone like Liddell could not box with Mayweather. Mayweather would come in with combinations and destroy him, and avoid every single punch by Liddell.

Additionally, boxers can take more punishment that most mixed martials arts guys. They've been training all their lives to take punishment.

On a side note, my friend tells me that boxing causes more brain damage than fighting without gloves. The gloves cause an energy transfer that creates more brain movement. Whereas a hand without a glove causes more local damage, but less brain movement (brain mvmt is bad, because the brain hits the inner skull).

Here's a question: how do poor boxers do when they go into the UFC/Pride? Butterbean for example.

SteelBlue · 01-07-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Just watched this:
[
I'd say someone like Mayweather would destroy either of these guys. I would bet my house on that.

I couldn't disagree more. In its early days the UFC invited people from many of the different fighting styles. The Brazilian jujitsu guys cleaned up on everybody and UFC became a forum where you absolutely had to have ground skills. Any pro boxer who can't wrestle and doesn't know submission holds would be beaten and beaten easily as soon as he was taken to the ground. There''s no way for them to keep from being taken to the ground unless they land one quick knockout punch as the opponent comes in for the takedown.

If you're saying you'd bet your house that Mayweather would beat a UFC guy in boxing only, then sure I'd agree. If you're saying that Mayweather could walk into the octagon using his boxing skills and beat a UFC guy with UFC rules, then I'll be taking your house.

SteelBlue · 01-07-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

In reality, I believe this to be true. Whoever is most skilled in his art or arts would win.

I don't believe this holds true with boxing. There is no way in boxing (besides a very early knockout punch) to keep from being taken to the ground where your art becomes nearly worthless immediately.

Archaea · 01-07-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I've watched snippets from a couple of UFC/Pride fights now, and I've seen maybe one kick. Kicking is worthless.

You see rather average punching from Liddell also (by boxing standards). He's muscle bound, which may serve him in wrestling (??), but wouldn't serve him in boxing. Didn't see any impressive combinations.

Gatti is not a very good boxer. Just an entertaining boxer. Someone like Liddell could not box with Mayweather. Mayweather would come in with combinations and destroy him, and avoid every single punch by Liddell.

Additionally, boxers can take more punishment that most mixed martials arts guys. They've been training all their lives to take punishment.

On a side note, my friend tells me that boxing causes more brain damage than fighting without gloves. The gloves cause an energy transfer that creates more brain movement. Whereas a hand without a glove causes more local damage, but less brain movement (brain mvmt is bad, because the brain hits the inner skull).

Here's a question: how do poor boxers do when they go into the UFC/Pride? Butterbean for example.

Butterbean went against a lousy wrestler and won in Pride, but the level of competition was nothing. Up until he dove into an upper cut, Butterbean was being pummeled.

MikeWaters · 01-07-2007, 06:04 PM

about going to the ground. my friend tells me it isn't realistic in street fighting.

because in street fighting if you go to the ground, you bite. only unskilled fighters end up fighting on the ground.

of course this doesn't apply in UFC, where biting is not allowed.

I was watching one of these UFC fights on youtube that was almost solely on the ground. Talk about boring. Seemed more like the equivalent of two gay dudes in slow motion.

01-07-2007, 05:09 AM	#12
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I haven't seen UFC or Pride, but my ex-pro boxing friend told me it is no coincidence that Liddell is the most boxer-like. This same guy used to kickbox. And he said the boxers would destroy the martial arts guys. Kicking gets you off balance. He said at the beginning of the round he would kick the required minimum (5?), and then just box the rest of the time. Gatti in his prime against Lidell? I've never seen Liddell fight, but I think it would be foolish to say that a boxer couldn't win, even a mediocre one like Gatti.

01-07-2007, 05:13 AM	#13
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Just watched this: I'd say someone like Mayweather would destroy either of these guys. I would bet my house on that.

01-07-2007, 12:58 PM	#16
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I've watched snippets from a couple of UFC/Pride fights now, and I've seen maybe one kick. Kicking is worthless. You see rather average punching from Liddell also (by boxing standards). He's muscle bound, which may serve him in wrestling (??), but wouldn't serve him in boxing. Didn't see any impressive combinations. Gatti is not a very good boxer. Just an entertaining boxer. Someone like Liddell could not box with Mayweather. Mayweather would come in with combinations and destroy him, and avoid every single punch by Liddell. Additionally, boxers can take more punishment that most mixed martials arts guys. They've been training all their lives to take punishment. On a side note, my friend tells me that boxing causes more brain damage than fighting without gloves. The gloves cause an energy transfer that creates more brain movement. Whereas a hand without a glove causes more local damage, but less brain movement (brain mvmt is bad, because the brain hits the inner skull). Here's a question: how do poor boxers do when they go into the UFC/Pride? Butterbean for example.

01-07-2007, 06:04 PM	#20
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	about going to the ground. my friend tells me it isn't realistic in street fighting. because in street fighting if you go to the ground, you bite. only unskilled fighters end up fighting on the ground. of course this doesn't apply in UFC, where biting is not allowed. I was watching one of these UFC fights on youtube that was almost solely on the ground. Talk about boring. Seemed more like the equivalent of two gay dudes in slow motion.