Sometimes Adam nails it.

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

IHowever, when a man like President Gordon B. Hinckley or Elder Bronco Mendenhall cause others to err, methinks the reprucussions are far more serious.

Bronco would never do that! I don't think President Hinckley would either.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

I'm also a judgemental prick, cause I like to go out on a limb and think that murderers and rapists,,especially of children,,are worse than me.

I don't know if you're being facetious or not. But this way of thinking is such a slippery slope. It sets you up for so many problems.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Adam

that pisses me off. It was one of the better discussion we have had on the board re: religion in quite a long time.

I can't believe so many people are so insecure about thier faith that they cannot countenance a different viewpoint. Drives me crazy.

I'm thinking of ending my cougarboard religion posts completely.

Why even waste your time there? It's not even fun to troll there.

[scottie]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Why even waste your time there? It's not even fun to troll there.

Amen.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Hey Adam,

Stop wasting your talents on CB and come join us here. It's a much better environment and we have some terrific, in-depth discussions. We even have a few mullahs hanging out here now that provide some variety to the mix.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Adam

Sure, Oaks and others hate to use the word "lie" when referring to what God does so often in the scriptures when talking about hell or when referring to what then BYU President Holland says in Souls Symbols and Sacraments. But to me a lie is when the speaker says words which he knows will leave a false impression in the mind of the listener. That the stateent is technically true under some secret special definations of words is irrelevent to me. When you intend to decieve you are lying.

And God lies all the time and so do his prophets. And it is ok. They do it because they love us and want to scare us into obedience because they understand the suffering that sin always brings with it. I don't criticize them for doing it. I just pointed out that it happens.

I read the Oaks article you linked to. I think even by your standards, saying Oaks is excusing lying is quite a stretch.

"I suppose most mortals employ some exaggeration and a little of what someone called 'innocent after-mindedness.' But does this mean we condone deliberate and important misrepresentations of fact in a circumstance in which they are clearly intended to be believed and relied upon? Never! Lying is sinful, as it has always been, and there is no exempt category for so-called 'lying for the Lord.' Lying is simply outside the range of permitted or condoned conduct by Latter-day Saints—members or leaders."

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Adam

In summary, Oaks won't say it is ok to lie. But he does say it is ok to mislead and deceive by being silent.

A question for those who are smarter than I:

How is silence misleading or deceiving?

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Adam

Then you remain silent while he testifies that he saw your other neighbor do it in the murder trial of neighbor #2. I think you are party to the lie.

A church example is after the Manifesto when church leaders would sit quietly and listen to others say the church had stopped the practice of plural marriage when they were preforming them all the time in secret. Certainly this is helping to perpetuate a lie.

Fair enough. I hadn't thought of scenarios like that.

[ute4ever]

Originally Posted by Adam

b. Church leaders in this dispensation did it reolygamy

to you too! Is that a um, Freudian slip of the tongue?