Sexual sin next to murder - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

jay santos · 07-06-2007, 04:56 PM

Here's my take.

Alma 39:5 Know ye not, my son, that these things are an
abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above
all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the
Holy Ghost?

I'll take this verse at face value. Sexual sin is next to murder, outranking other sins in seriousness. It's been quoted so often by church leaders, I just think it's too much of a logical leap to try to twist it around to say Alma's talking about a different sin.

Here is how I reconcile this with my grace based doctrinal view.

I believe sin is serious. I believe sin is an abomination. I believe sin causes great pain to the sinner as well as victims. Out of the sins I can think of, it's reasonably logical to say sexual sin is right up there after murder in seriousness. It may be a distant second, but I can believe it's second. I also believe in Alma's words, that it's "not easy for him to obtain forgiveness" for he who "murdereth against the light and knowledge of God". (I'm a little confused if this is #1 sinning against Holy Ghost with #2 regular ol' murder and #3 adultery or if this is reference to #2 murder.) And I would expect it also not to be easy to obtain forgiveness for lesser sins like sexual sin but moreso than #1.

But then like BYUinNYC relates, you have to follow the story out. Alma sends Corianton back on his mission. Corianton quickly (but we don't know how painfully or how difficult) repents and obtains forgiveness and provides great service and leadership.

So, I assume all of it is true and pretty clear.

1. Sexual sin is very serious, an abomination, and high up on the rank of sin below murder.
2. Forgiveness can be obtained very quickly and fully.

I believe the big problem here is that we're too afraid of sin. This affects BYUinNYC. He's got the grace part right in knowing God forgives his children who struggle with sexual sin, but he's been pounded by worthiness and fear of sin so long by LDS church that it's easier to minimize the sin than acknowledge the huge sin but also acknowledge the huge grace. Even when we partially get the grace doctrine right, we still want to do logical gymnastics to make it all fit right with our doctrine of fear of sin.

Let's just acknowledge we're all sinners. We're all hopeless. We're all unworthy. We all fall short on a daily basis. We screw things up really bad all the time. Guys like Tex and Indy and the Pharisees with their legalistic views are able to grind out a life devoid of the "major" sins but even they fall short and sin in ways that God is offended by and can have no part in. It's not such a big deal to rank sin when you accept this. OK sin is #3 and violence is #4 and pride is #5? I've got a lot of #5, you've got a little of #3, and he's got some of #4. We're all screwed up, and I can't put myself above you because you do more of #3 right?

We're all sinners. We all need Savior's grace.

Indy Coug · 07-06-2007, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

Guys like Tex and Indy and the Pharisees with their legalistic views...

What a baseless characterization.

07-06-2007, 04:56 PM	#1
jay santos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,177	Sexual sin next to murder Here's my take. Alma 39:5 Know ye not, my son, that these things are an abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost? I'll take this verse at face value. Sexual sin is next to murder, outranking other sins in seriousness. It's been quoted so often by church leaders, I just think it's too much of a logical leap to try to twist it around to say Alma's talking about a different sin. Here is how I reconcile this with my grace based doctrinal view. I believe sin is serious. I believe sin is an abomination. I believe sin causes great pain to the sinner as well as victims. Out of the sins I can think of, it's reasonably logical to say sexual sin is right up there after murder in seriousness. It may be a distant second, but I can believe it's second. I also believe in Alma's words, that it's "not easy for him to obtain forgiveness" for he who "murdereth against the light and knowledge of God". (I'm a little confused if this is #1 sinning against Holy Ghost with #2 regular ol' murder and #3 adultery or if this is reference to #2 murder.) And I would expect it also not to be easy to obtain forgiveness for lesser sins like sexual sin but moreso than #1. But then like BYUinNYC relates, you have to follow the story out. Alma sends Corianton back on his mission. Corianton quickly (but we don't know how painfully or how difficult) repents and obtains forgiveness and provides great service and leadership. So, I assume all of it is true and pretty clear. 1. Sexual sin is very serious, an abomination, and high up on the rank of sin below murder. 2. Forgiveness can be obtained very quickly and fully. I believe the big problem here is that we're too afraid of sin. This affects BYUinNYC. He's got the grace part right in knowing God forgives his children who struggle with sexual sin, but he's been pounded by worthiness and fear of sin so long by LDS church that it's easier to minimize the sin than acknowledge the huge sin but also acknowledge the huge grace. Even when we partially get the grace doctrine right, we still want to do logical gymnastics to make it all fit right with our doctrine of fear of sin. Let's just acknowledge we're all sinners. We're all hopeless. We're all unworthy. We all fall short on a daily basis. We screw things up really bad all the time. Guys like Tex and Indy and the Pharisees with their legalistic views are able to grind out a life devoid of the "major" sins but even they fall short and sin in ways that God is offended by and can have no part in. It's not such a big deal to rank sin when you accept this. OK sin is #3 and violence is #4 and pride is #5? I've got a lot of #5, you've got a little of #3, and he's got some of #4. We're all screwed up, and I can't put myself above you because you do more of #3 right? We're all sinners. We all need Savior's grace.