Senate healthcare will pass in House

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I truly despise him for this and all who supported him.

Et tu, Brute?

Caesar initially resisted his attackers, but when he saw Brutus, he supposedly spoke those words and resigned himself to his fate.

We mourn the traitors who would have held with us.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

We mourn the traitors who would have held with us.

Giving into the bastard's soft speech is unthinkable. Those of us skeptical of Greeks bearing gifts saw him for what he is.

[Levin]

What's worse according to you fire-and-brimstone-hell-and-God's-fury godfearing Republicans:

(1) 32 million people who continue to be uninsured, and who make too much to be on Medicaid, but can't afford health insurance OR

(2) 32 million working poor who are provided health insurance by "fat wealthy pasty white men" and "leathered and tanned teenage girls"?

And to kick in the bargain, let's ban denial of coverage based on preexisting conditions and lifetime caps.

And most importantly, this bill contains the seeds for addressing the heart of the healthcare problem in America -- healthcare costs -- through its pilot projects of eliminating the fee-for-service model and introducing one based on consumer choice based on transparent pricing. Sweeping reform of how we pay for healthcare in this country was not feasible this time around.

The Republicans will only be remembered as the defeatists and knee-jerk party of can't.

You have a lot of fire, but no explanations why this is the end of America.

This bill undeniably makes this country a more healthy -- and moral -- country.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Levin

What's worse according to you fire-and-brimstone-hell-and-God's-fury godfearing Republicans:

(1) 32 million people who continue to be uninsured, and who make too much to be on Medicaid, but can't afford health insurance OR

(2) 32 million working poor who are provided health insurance by "fat wealthy pasty white men" and "leathered and tanned teenage girls"?

And to kick in the bargain, let's ban denial of coverage based on preexisting conditions and lifetime caps.

And most importantly, this bill contains the seeds for addressing the heart of the healthcare problem in America -- healthcare costs -- through its pilot projects of eliminating the fee-for-service model and introducing one based on consumer choice based on transparent pricing. Sweeping reform of how we pay for healthcare in this country was not feasible this time around.

The Republicans will only be remembered as the defeatists and knee-jerk party of can't.

You have a lot of fire, but no explanations why this is the end of America.

This bill undeniably makes this country a more healthy -- and moral -- country.

There is so much bullshit in this post I don't know where to start.

Obama's health care reform is predicated upon the big Lie.

There are NOT 32 million who can't afford insurance. There is some number but we don't know what it is. The number floats in order to promote the Big Lie. You are a liar and you are well aware.

There are large numbers of students for example who choose NOT to get insurance, not due to cost but because they'd rather not spend the money. There are others who elect to not be insured. And to show you I am capable of honesty whereas you are not, yes, there are some people who can't afford insurance but seek health care through the emergency rooms.

Obama's plan is nothing more than Big Brother forcing an option designed to fail upon our economy. This is blatant dishonesty. As Mike as argued the mandates will cripple private insurance so that Big Brother can rape us with the Single Payer system. It's a scheme, and you know it.

Who cares if a Republican is god-fearing or atheist, at least we speak economic realities and are not perpetrating Big Brother to lord over us once again.

There is nothing noble in this endeavor and you are a divisive bastard for knowingly perpetrating a lie.






T

[MikeWaters]

Where are the stories of babies being born on the street or in apartments because mothers don't have health insurance?

Where are the deformed and lame because they couldn't get their broken bones mended, due to lack of insurance?

The simple truth is that there are a lot of people that don't have private health insurance, but are receiving perfectly good healthcare. Including folks who are in this country illegally.

Obamacare is a foot in the door. It's yet another step towards the government taking control of our lives.

If liberals were allowed to rule, we would truly be a socialist welfare state. Look how the liberals howled when the Republicans passed welfare reform (grudgingly signed by Clinton).

If a country incentivizes stupidity and laziness, it will get exactly that.

[Levin]

[QUOTE=MikeWaters;310551]Where are the stories of babies being born on the street or in apartments because mothers don't have health insurance?

Where are the deformed and lame because they couldn't get their broken bones mended, due to lack of insurance? [\QUOTE]

Red herring questions, of course. If you were honest like your brother Arch you'd ask this one: where are the people who are forced into bankruptcy due to unexpected health costs?

There are droves.

[MikeWaters]

http://www.american.com/archive/2009...ankruptcy-myth

I've personally never met a single person that went into bankruptcy because of healthcare costs. I haven't even heard a second-hand story of such a person.

There is a very easy way to get out of a big bill from a hospital: don't pay it.

I have a friend who is a physician. He recently told me a story about the birth of his child. Their insurance happened to switch between companies on the day the child was born. This was just recently. So the wife had already been admitted to the hospital, thus the old insurance was in effect. So when the switchover occurred, the hospital was not aware of the new insurance, and thus believed that they were no uninsured. It was a c-section, and they were presented with a large bill. These types of bills are always very large, much more than the insurance company would pay (because they contract for much less). The hospital finance person told my friend that they would take a payment of about 5% of the bill, and the bill would be settled. In fact, the amount was so small, that it was less than the deductible he was going to have to pay with his new insurance. Of course, he explained the new insurance, and it was all taken care of properly. But he was astounded that he could have walked away scot-free paying a fraction of the bill, less than his deductible.

Many hospitals are actually required to provide a certain amount of charity care to maintain non-profit status. Many bills are never sent to collections, and those that are sent to collections, many if not most are never collected on.

In Dallas, there is a large medical safety-net. It is paid for with a special hospital district property tax. Hospital, multiple clinics, the whole works. It's a huge enterprise serving a lot of people. They get meds dirt-cheap. Yet, each of these persons is considered to be without insurance. But in reality they have the equivalent of insurance.

So what distortions and lies are next up for discussion?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

http://www.american.com/archive/2009...ankruptcy-myth

I've personally never met a single person that went into bankruptcy because of healthcare costs. I haven't even heard a second-hand story of such a person.

There is a very easy way to get out of a big bill from a hospital: don't pay it.

I have a friend who is a physician. He recently told me a story about the birth of his child. Their insurance happened to switch between companies on the day the child was born. This was just recently. So the wife had already been admitted to the hospital, thus the old insurance was in effect. So when the switchover occurred, the hospital was not aware of the new insurance, and thus believed that they were no uninsured. It was a c-section, and they were presented with a large bill. These types of bills are always very large, much more than the insurance company would pay (because they contract for much less). The hospital finance person told my friend that they would take a payment of about 5% of the bill, and the bill would be settled. In fact, the amount was so small, that it was less than the deductible he was going to have to pay with his new insurance. Of course, he explained the new insurance, and it was all taken care of properly. But he was astounded that he could have walked away scot-free paying a fraction of the bill, less than his deductible.

Many hospitals are actually required to provide a certain amount of charity care to maintain non-profit status. Many bills are never sent to collections, and those that are sent to collections, many if not most are never collected on.

In Dallas, there is a large medical safety-net. It is paid for with a special hospital district property tax. Hospital, multiple clinics, the whole works. It's a huge enterprise serving a lot of people. They get meds dirt-cheap. Yet, each of these persons is considered to be without insurance. But in reality they have the equivalent of insurance.

So what distortions and lies are next up for discussion?

Nevada has a bill which requires its hospitals to reduce the price for cash customers, uninsured, to about 40 percent of billed charges. Usually they will settle for pennies on that.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

http://www.american.com/archive/2009...ankruptcy-myth

I've personally never met a single person that went into bankruptcy because of healthcare costs. I haven't even heard a second-hand story of such a person.

There is a very easy way to get out of a big bill from a hospital: don't pay it.

I have a friend who is a physician. He recently told me a story about the birth of his child. Their insurance happened to switch between companies on the day the child was born. This was just recently. So the wife had already been admitted to the hospital, thus the old insurance was in effect. So when the switchover occurred, the hospital was not aware of the new insurance, and thus believed that they were no uninsured. It was a c-section, and they were presented with a large bill. These types of bills are always very large, much more than the insurance company would pay (because they contract for much less). The hospital finance person told my friend that they would take a payment of about 5% of the bill, and the bill would be settled. In fact, the amount was so small, that it was less than the deductible he was going to have to pay with his new insurance. Of course, he explained the new insurance, and it was all taken care of properly. But he was astounded that he could have walked away scot-free paying a fraction of the bill, less than his deductible.

Many hospitals are actually required to provide a certain amount of charity care to maintain non-profit status. Many bills are never sent to collections, and those that are sent to collections, many if not most are never collected on.

In Dallas, there is a large medical safety-net. It is paid for with a special hospital district property tax. Hospital, multiple clinics, the whole works. It's a huge enterprise serving a lot of people. They get meds dirt-cheap. Yet, each of these persons is considered to be without insurance. But in reality they have the equivalent of insurance.

So what distortions and lies are next up for discussion?

Wait- so you think if you just don't pay the hospital bill, you won't even have to go into bankruptcy?

Do you realize the hospital can put the bill into collections (and will)? If it still is uncollected, they will get a judgment? If they get a judgment, they can take money directly from your account? That they can garnish your wages? Make your life utterly miserable financially? So much so that the only relief is bankruptcy?

I can't believe you have never heard of anyone who has gone into bankruptcy due to health care costs.

[MikeWaters]

I am not at a computer right now, but a search on my phone suggests that in Texas wages cannot be garnished due to hospital debt. Also that Texas has laws that make nonprofit hospitals more accountable for their collection practices.

I know for certain that in Texas your homestead cannot be taken due to this kind of debt.

I repeat I have never once heard of anyone going bankrupt because of medical bills.

How productive is it to sue poor people?