Credit Cards and FICO score

[Clark Addison]

I work in the Credit Card industry, and I used to work at one of the three credit bureaus, although I don't know all the ins and outs of the FICO score. Very few people do know the details, it is a closely guarded secret. If you call any of the three bureaus, they won't tell you how things will impact your score, for two reasons. First, FICO doesn't like information like this made public, since it makes it easier to game the system. Second, no one you speak to at the bureaus will know anything useful.

Having said that, closing a card won't impact your score much, with one exception that I will elaborate on below. If the issuer closes your card, it will usually ding you quite a bit, since they usually close your card because you are a bad customer. If you open a card, your credit will be hurt somewhat less, but still more than if you close a card, since opening a card is a possible sign of financial distress. The only time that closing a card will really hurt you is if you carry a high balance on all your other cards. Closing a card will then increase your utilization (balance divided by credit limit). If your utilization gets high, your score will suffer greatly. If your other cards carry no balances, I would be very surprised if your score dropped by 5 points, if at all. Any drop should resolve itself within a few months.

It may be worth it to ask for the fee to be waived, but issuers are more reluctant to do that these days (we're feeling the financial pinch), and it would only be a one year fix. They aren't going to waive it completely for you. If you don't use the card, they probably won't waive the fee, as they don't have much incentive to keep you around.

As far as the new card/transfer card thing, it depends on the issuer and the product. There are some cards that we can just transfer to a different product without closing the card, and some that we can't. Since this is an airline card, though, I would guess that they will have to close it.

I would just close it, unless it is a US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines, or Lufthansa card. In that case, I would encourage you to open up 3 or 4 more of them and carry very large balances. It would really help me out.

[cougjunkie]

Originally Posted by Clark Addison

I work in the Credit Card industry, and I used to work at one of the three credit bureaus, although I don't know all the ins and outs of the FICO score. Very few people do know the details, it is a closely guarded secret. If you call any of the three bureaus, they won't tell you how things will impact your score, for two reasons. First, FICO doesn't like information like this made public, since it makes it easier to game the system. Second, no one you speak to at the bureaus will know anything useful.

Having said that, closing a card won't impact your score much, with one exception that I will elaborate on below. If the issuer closes your card, it will usually ding you quite a bit, since they usually close your card because you are a bad customer. If you open a card, your credit will be hurt somewhat less, but still more than if you close a card, since opening a card is a possible sign of financial distress. The only time that closing a card will really hurt you is if you carry a high balance on all your other cards. Closing a card will then increase your utilization (balance divided by credit limit). If your utilization gets high, your score will suffer greatly. If your other cards carry no balances, I would be very surprised if your score dropped by 5 points, if at all. Any drop should resolve itself within a few months.

It may be worth it to ask for the fee to be waived, but issuers are more reluctant to do that these days (we're feeling the financial pinch), and it would only be a one year fix. They aren't going to waive it completely for you. If you don't use the card, they probably won't waive the fee, as they don't have much incentive to keep you around.

As far as the new card/transfer card thing, it depends on the issuer and the product. There are some cards that we can just transfer to a different product without closing the card, and some that we can't. Since this is an airline card, though, I would guess that they will have to close it.

I would just close it, unless it is a US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines, or Lufthansa card. In that case, I would encourage you to open up 3 or 4 more of them and carry very large balances. It would really help me out.

This is the proper advice. As long as on your credit report it says: "Closed by Consumer" and not "Closed by creditor" You will be fine, not a huge hit at all. In fact it could potentially help your score if your available credit limit is say 20,000. That is higher risk because at any time you can go out and add 20k to your credit profile. That is why most people tell you to have your balance to limit ratio at about 50%.

Are you sure you are not over 800? I mean everyone I talk to is.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by cougjunkie

This is the proper advice. As long as on your credit report it says: "Closed by Consumer" and not "Closed by creditor" You will be fine, not a huge hit at all. In fact it could potentially help your score if your available credit limit is say 20,000. That is higher risk because at any time you can go out and add 20k to your credit profile. That is why most people tell you to have your balance to limit ratio at about 50%.

Are you sure you are not over 800? I mean everyone I talk to is.

I wish I were above 800.

Truthfully, I seem to have maxed out. I hit a ceiling and don't seem to move up or down either way.

What are the people at 800 doing that the ones at 730-760 are not? I know the rate benefit differential at that level is going to be negligible, but out of curiosity, how do some folks get up past 800? Do I have to open a few more cards, use them, and pay them off on time?

[cougjunkie]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I wish I were above 800.

Truthfully, I seem to have maxed out. I hit a ceiling and don't seem to move up or down either way.

What are the people at 800 doing that the ones at 730-760 are not? I know the rate benefit differential at that level is going to be negligible, but out of curiosity, how do some folks get up past 800? Do I have to open a few more cards, use them, and pay them off on time?

I have only pulled about 2000 credit reports in my lifetime and I have seen over 800, once or twice. So you may want to ask BDB because she doesnt use credit cards, has a co-signer on her car and is still over 800 which is amazing.

[Clark Addison]

Originally Posted by cougjunkie

I have only pulled about 2000 credit reports in my lifetime and I have seen over 800, once or twice. So you may want to ask BDB because she doesnt use credit cards, has a co-signer on her car and is still over 800 which is amazing.

My experience is a little different than this, although I agree that 800+ is rare. Of people who apply for credit, we see about 2% to 3% that have a score of 800 or over. We may skew a little high.

[CardiacCoug]

My credit score is 805 as of a month ago.

One thing that probably helps (I don't know for sure) is that I have some very high limits on a bunch of credit cards that I never use. I have one card with a $30K limit and another with a $40K limit and several other with about $15K limits. I don't ever carry a balance. I think one factor is the debt to available credit ratio and if you keep that very, very low I believe it helps your score.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

My credit score is 805 as of a month ago.

One thing that probably helps (I don't know for sure) is that I have some very high limits on a bunch of credit cards that I never use. I have one card with a $30K limit and another with a $40K limit and several other with about $15K limits. I don't ever carry a balance. I think one factor is the debt to available credit ratio and if you keep that very, very low I believe it helps your score.

With a home purchase and then a refi within the past year, we had our scores checked a couple of times, and averaged in the low 800s. The loan-to-value on our house is fairly low, we have three credit cards with limits around $40K but which we pay off each month (we rotate their use to maximize AA, Southwest and Marriott rewards), and no other debt. I joke a lot otherwise, but I'm married to a very thrifty woman, for which I give daily thanks.

[Clark Addison]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I wish I were above 800.

Truthfully, I seem to have maxed out. I hit a ceiling and don't seem to move up or down either way.

What are the people at 800 doing that the ones at 730-760 are not? I know the rate benefit differential at that level is going to be negligible, but out of curiosity, how do some folks get up past 800? Do I have to open a few more cards, use them, and pay them off on time?

Hard to say without looking at your credit file. You said you only have two cards. If you put a lot of charges on one of them, even if you are paying it off every month, your utilization might be a little high. In this case, having a couple of additional cards with empty balances could help, but it is not a short-term fix. Opening up more cards will cause your score to go down for the next year or so, maybe a little longer.

Opening any new account will cause your score to go down for a while, so if you just got a car loan 6 months ago, you just need to wait for another year or so.

How long have you had credit in general, and your mortgage? If it is a relatively short time (less than 7 years for credit, and less than 2 years on your mortgage), it will be tougher to get up above 800.

Obviously, it is tough to get above 800 if you have anything derogatory. If you were 30 days late on your Sears card 2 years ago, or never paid your last electric bill which went to collections 5 years ago, you will have to wait for those to roll off.

For most things, there is little to know difference between a 770 and an 810, but occasionally there are benefits. One "hidden" benefit is that it is not uncommon for marketers to take anyone over 800 off their mailing lists. They need credit so little that almost none of them respond. It is not uncommon to mail 1,000 people with 800+ FICO and have, on average, one of them respond.

[Levin]

How long does it take negative ticks to roll off your credit score?

Like DDD, I'm hoping to push my 799 score over the 800 threshold.

[hyrum]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

What are the people at 800 doing that the ones at 730-760 are not? I know the rate benefit differential at that level is going to be negligible, but out of curiosity, how do some folks get up past 800? Do I have to open a few more cards, use them, and pay them off on time?

I dunno what specifically, but the old saying is people who can get credit don't need it. So the wife and I do things like take advantage of 90-days same as cash from time-to-time (like for furniture or electronics, average maybe once per year) and recently went for 0% for 3 years on a Toyota (50% cash paid) -- I don't guess anyone who watches sports has missed those commercials, ugh. Rather low debt to equity in the house, use credit cards but rarely carry a balance, keep the same cards a long time. Pay on time - most bills automated because I get forgetful in my old age

Does 800 make a difference? Somehow I thought thresholds for deals were more like 750.