Canadian Healthcare

[MikeWaters]

I was on the phone with a T-mobile rep for about an hour and a half today troubleshooting my phone.

It took a long time because I think she was pretty new, and every step was preceded by "let me place you on hold while I work on this." Which was then likely followed by her asking her boss/trainer what to do next.

Anyway, during some of the downtime while my phone was rebooting, we got to talking. She was from Canada (I asked about her accent).

So I say, what do you think of Canadian healthcare. She related that her mother had died in the past year, and that it was a very difficult time while her mother was in the hospital. She described the nurses as overworked, and the hospital understaffed, and she and family members had to pick up the slack in taking care of their dying mother in the hospital. She said she would not recommend it.

I don't suggest making decisions based on anecdotes. I merely think that was an interesting reminder on where rationed care can lead.

I think if people are honest, they might admit that the only way we are ever going to reduce healthcare costs in this country (besides the obvious things like people living more healthily, which won't happen), is to ration care.

[MikeWaters]

Peter Singer on healthcare rationing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/ma...ewanted=1&_r=1

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Peter Singer on healthcare rationing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/ma...ewanted=1&_r=1

That's a great article. Thanks.

[MikeWaters]

Peter Singer is known for having controversial views.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Singer

[SoonerCoug]

I've never felt like comparing America and Canada is very fair. Their GDP per capita is lower than ours. They spend much less on health care, and they lack the healthcare infrastructure that we have. Sure, rationed care can be a dangerous thing. Citing Canada as an example of inadequate socialized medicine if fair, but I'm not sure it's not fair to say that all nations with socialized medicine have worse healthcare than we do.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I've never felt like comparing America and Canada is very fair. Their GDP per capita is lower than ours. They spend much less on health care, and they lack the healthcare infrastructure that we have. Sure, rationed care can be a dangerous thing. Citing Canada as an example of inadequate socialized medicine if fair, but I'm not sure it's not fair to say that all nations with socialized medicine have worse healthcare than we do.

Discussions about changes to our health care system ignore invariably the changes to our health care culture, and how our expectations of our health care system differ vastly from other socialized nations. The expectation of a French person, German person or a Brit is not the same, so comparing what is delivered is not very useful.

Mike referenced an insightful article about health care decisions being made by caregivers, not accountants. For example Medicare reviewers are frequently accountants, nurses and to a much lesser extent physicians. It's all about cost containment while providing some universal care.

The current debate is dishonest and pandering to the desire to give everybody something for nothing, or with the delayed delivery of the price ticket. My best recollection of a government representation of a health care related cost prediction was for Medicare. In 1964 the prediction for program related costs for 1984 was $4 Billion when in fact it was about $400 Billion. Can we afford that much of a cost miscalculation? I shudder to think our electorate would accept some an abomination.

Rationing MUST be part of the discussion if we wish to guarantee universal access to some minimum level of care. But everybody lies about it. And the costs are plain distorted, covered up and lied about.

Plus what are reasonable expectations of delivery? What can be delivered? What cannot? As the Slate or Altantic article Mike cited showed, what level of physician involvement in disease management will be involved?

Too many legitimate questions are not being asked.