The belief system that's conquering the world

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by All-American

I am actually going to speak out on the behalf of disbelievers in general.

Every human being has the natural right to evaluate all the evidence presented to them and decide what makes sense to them. I don't believe that most atheists proclaim atheism as truth because it is easier, or because they want to stick it to their parents or to their nosy neighbors. In all likelihood, they've looked at the arguments presented to them and decided that the most logical system is one without a God. To accuse them of ignorance of other kinds of evidence is both obvious and irrelevant; nobody is able to examine ALL the evidence. They go with what they feel is most correct, and that's a right they have.

Surely some proclaim atheism less because they believe it, and more because they are lashing out at something. Until I have means to decisively decide which is which, I'll give the benefit of the doubt.

While you make several good points at the same time it also calls to the mind that FAITH may very well be the most important cog in our spiritual beliefs.

To me FAITH is truly a power or a muscle to be exercised. To be exercised EVEN if it's in spite of their intellectual pride.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by Archaea

In academics, you will find those who find discrepancies of the professed religions and thereby declare, 'well those guys are liars, it must be made up."

In life, however, most non-academics don't really ponder things that much. They worry about food on the table. If family is believing, they believe, if not they aren't. It's not much more complex than that. This is oversimplification, but disbelieving simply involves doubt to a point where your will to believe as William James likes to put is extinguished. You give up.

People exert just as much belief in atheism as anything else. There is no definitive evidence of the existence of deity, and you can't prove a negative. Being unable to prove a certain model of the universe, theists and atheists alike choose to believe it.

An agnostic at least admits he just hasn't seen evidence to convince him of God's existence.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by All-American

People exert just as much belief in atheism as anything else. There is no definitive evidence of the existence of deity, and you can't prove a negative. Being unable to prove a certain model of the universe, theists and atheists alike choose to believe it.

An agnostic at least admits he just hasn't seen evidence to convince him of God's existence.

Some atheists exert elements of belief, but for the most part, I see it as the easy way out.

Let's see, I don't find the empirical evidence, I will discount anything looks like evidence and hence no belief.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Some atheists exert elements of belief, but for the most part, I see it as the easy way out.

Well, they do repeatedly assert that the "burden of proof" is on the believing party. I suppose you could argue that this is an easy way out, of sorts.

But many atheists genuinely seek an intellectual honesty they don't find in religious tradition. I don't believe the search intellectual honesty is ever easy.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Well, they do repeatedly assert that the "burden of proof" is on the believing party. I suppose you could argue that this is an easy way out, of sorts.

But many atheists genuinely seek an intellectual honesty they don't find in religious tradition. I don't believe the search intellectual honesty is ever easy.

If and only if, you continue the search. Ask an old atheist, and probe how long that person continues searching.

Remember I started as an atheist from an atheistic household, still with many atheistic members of my family.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Archaea

If and only if, you continue the search. Ask an old atheist, and probe how long that person continues searching.

I suppose this is true. I don't know any old atheists.

[RockyBalboa]

There are no atheists in foxholes.....or death beds.

[Archaea]

Famous axiom, Rocky, never been in a foxhole to confirm or refute.

Atheism has an appeal to the empirical mind, but it is empty. The soul craves more than what the eye can see. Some do not find it and remain in atheism.

Belief requires rigor and creativity. It is harmonic, not melody alone, as is atheism which sings alone.

Atheism can cause one to develop one's empirical senses, one's logic, one's mind. It just misses a piece to the puzzle towards completeness.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Remember, this is a guy who says he has read certain works, but when push comes to shove, he admits that he has only read the reviews, but "that is sufficient."

I've never said I read anything I didn't read. Show me the post where you claim I did. It is true that I have commented on some works that I haven't read such as Bushman's book and American Religion (I have read parts of it). I never claimed to have read either of them any more than I did. I have been very candid about what I have read and not read. Shame on you.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I've never said I read anything I didn't read. Show me the post where you claim I did. It is true that I have commented on some works that I haven't read such as Bushman's book and American Religion (I have read parts of it). I never claimed to have read either of them any more than I did. I have been very candid about what I have read and not read. Shame on you.

Speak truly, now, and tell us you weren't thrilled that Mike made this error in distinction that enabled you to take the moral high ground.