Garment Complaints:

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by 8ballrollin

You two are worse than my kids.

Does that mean we are grounded?

[MikeWaters]

It's still not clear to me how private garments are supposed to be.

My dad for example, in the lockerroom, would remove his garment bottoms and pants at the same time, so as not to allow others to see his garments.

Of course he didn't mind if me or my brothers saw his garments, because his home uniform was garments sans others clothes.

[RC Vikings]

Originally Posted by Adam

He was the administrative head of the church until HJG died. Then he took a more muted role under DOM. But he brought the church into the modern era as much as anyone did--I mean this organizationally and internationally.

His influence opened foreign doors to the church and made possible the temples in England and Switzerland etc.

He built the bureaucracy of the church--a great blessing and a great curse. He mentored HBL who furthered his ideas into modern correlation.

He remained faithful until the end, but never expressed the kind of burning testimony that others did (like BRM for instance). His talks focused on living a good life and the priesthood structure and the theoretical aspects of the atonement. He never really was an "I believe" kind of guy.

In his bio he is quoted thus from a letter to the non-Mormon President of George Washington University Cloyd Marvin:

"For my own part I early came to recognize that for me personally I must either quit rationalizing. . . or I must follow the line of my own thinking which would lead me I know not where. . . I came early to appreciate that I could not rationalize a religion for myself, and that to attempt to do so woudl destroy my faith in God. . . I have always worshiped facts and while I thought and read for a while, many of the incidents of life, experiences and circumstances, which led, unaided by the spirit of faith, to the position of the atheist, yet the faith of my fathers led me to abandon all that and to refrain from following it. . . For me there seemed to be no alternative. I could only build up a doubt.--If I were to attempt to rationalize about my life here, and the life to come, I would be drowned in a sea of doubt."

Much later in speaking to a YM group he said "there came into my life many of the doubts which perhaps creap into yours."

Both quotes from p. 27

So how can a special witness of Jesus Christ feel this way?
How would active members react if a current apostle were to express doubt?

[8ballrollin]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

It's still not clear to me how private garments are supposed to be.

My dad for example, in the lockerroom, would remove his garment bottoms and pants at the same time, so as not to allow others to see his garments.

Steve Young tells the story of changing into his garments after a game (while on the 9ers) and one of the players asks him, "Man, those are some sweet underwear. Where can I get some of those?" And Steve replies, "Don't worry man, you can’t afford them."

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Adam

The interesting thing to me isn't that he had doubts, but that he never resolved them. He just stop thinking about it and decided to be a Mormon. So what it if wasn't true--it didn't hurt being a Mormon. He never really had a testimony it seems.

Does this belief give you some comfort?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Tex

Does this belief give you some comfort?

It comforts me. If leaders can doubt but still carry on, it makes it easier for rank and filers to doubt but still to carry on. If you feel as though you are alone in your doubts, you can be made to feel like an odd duck.