Recording of an excommunication

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

if behavior was inappropriate in the first proceeding, probably not likely to be repeated in the second.

Behavior in the proceeding would usually be irrelevant. You are there for behavior outside of the hearing. The facts presented and the result are the keys. Moreover, I can tell you from experience that a record and even a recording more often than not fail to help as much as you would like in follow on hearings with respect to misbehavior in the hearing itself.

[Snowcat]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Maybe we can. I can't learn anything I need to know. Of course I already believe such proceedings are not a spiritually uplifting event. They are disciplinary. I remember a discussion on one of the boards about it being a loving act. LOL Maybe that is why the SP tries to be so nice, so the accused can feel loved on the way out the door.

I can only speak from personal experience, but I disagree completey that these councils are neither loving nor uplifting. I rate my experiences as some of the most uplifting and spiritual experiences I have witnessed. However, I have only been involved when both sides see the process as part of the way to eventual reconciliation rather than permanant separation.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Snowcat

I can only speak from personal experience, but I disagree completey that these councils are neither loving nor uplifting. I rate my experiences as some of the most uplifting and spiritual experiences I have witnessed. However, I have only been involved when both sides see the process as part of the way to eventual reconciliation rather than permanant separation.

Most excommunications are not over apostasy. My dad was on the HC, and said there was never a single one he participated in that had to do with apostasy.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Snowcat

I can only speak from personal experience, but I disagree completey that these councils are neither loving nor uplifting. I rate my experiences as some of the most uplifting and spiritual experiences I have witnessed. However, I have only been involved when both sides see the process as part of the way to eventual reconciliation rather than permanant separation.

You are probably right. I have no "on hands" experience, they are only second hand. The ones people have told me about were not of the spiritual nature.

ONe of my friends was on the high council. He told me about one where he said he was embarassed for and felt sorry for the person being exed. I said, did you speak up. He said, heck no, if I did the SP would have come down on me like a ton of bricks.

I will admit I didn't ask if he had any good experiences and perahps he had.

[Clark Addison]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Most excommunications are not over apostasy. My dad was on the HC, and said there was never a single one he participated in that had to do with apostasy.

Shockingly, almost every single one I have been involved in involved sex.

I don't remember any for apostasy, or anything related to what this guy was doing, but it's not like I have been involved in hundreds of them.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by creekster

I do not claim to be very smart and I do not want this to be about me. But I do resent that you show such little respect for the depth of commitment and feeling exhibited by persons who seek to be faithful members of the church, be they rank and file or those you consider to be "weirdos." The human condition is difficult and complex and many, even millions, find truth and comfort in this church and this fact cannot and should not be so blithely and disrespectfully dismissed by someone of your background and family experience. That you choose to disagree does not bother me, but every now and then your approach is nothing more than so much bitter pablum, as it was here IMO.

I realize you are not alone in your approach on this site but, as I said, given your background and intelligence, I expect more out of you, even when you are playing a troll.

This is not a very gracious way to accept a compliment.

[Taq Man]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

Recording it is one thing...publishing it is another.

If the church is on the up and up with nothing to hide then what are you worried about? I thought everyone involved in the hearing played well their part.

In other words much ado about nothing. I can see throwing him under the bus as a self important attention grabber. His look at me workshops that took place after words are a bit self serving and I think he comes off as a douche bag, but recording and publishing the hearing I don't have a problem with. The church keeps a record, so should the member.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

If the church is on the up and up with nothing to hide then what are you worried about? I thought everyone involved in the hearing played well their part.

In other words much ado about nothing. I can see throwing him under the bus as a self important attention grabber. His look at me workshops that took place after words are a bit self serving and I think he comes off as a douche bag, but recording and publishing the hearing I don't have a problem with. The church keeps a record, so should the member.

The dishonesty doesn't bother you? Surely that should.

[minn_stat]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Deseret Books doesn't sell any works by John Krakauer. Come on, you are arguing with all the intelligence of a Snipe.

The book the guy cited, which the SP said was sold in DB, then the guy says "they no longer sell it." Which if true, supports the argument of suppression.

They did sell it for quite a while. My wife bought it for me as a gift several years ago, not realizing what is was. She isn't the type to buy something like this, and when I told her about it, she was pretty embarassed. I thought the whole thing was pretty funny. Every time I was in Utah at Deseret Book for quite some time afterwards, I saw the book. And it wasn't hidden in some back corner.

[MikeWaters]

How do we know he didn't get permission to record it?

What if he insisted? Would they then not allow him to be there?