found some interesting quotes by brigham young.... - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

fusnik11 · 11-11-2005, 07:55 PM

B. BRIGHAM YOUNG: "I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken the influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not." (Discourses of Brigham Young, John A Widtsoe, pg. 136).

"The First Presidency have a right of great influence over this people; and if we should get out of the way and lead this people to destruction, what a pity it would be! How can you know whether we lead you correctly or not? Can you know by any other power than that of the Holy Ghost? I have uniformly exhorted the people to obtain this living witness, each for themselves; then no man on earth can lead them astray." (Discourses of Brigham Young, pg. 137).

so much for blind obedience, and following the prophet regardless what they say.

Dan · 11-11-2005, 08:04 PM

... we are to "follow the prophet, he knows the way". Brigham is not the prophet anymore, so forget about what he said. I say that tongue in cheek, but what BY said is dead on, IMO, to what we face today. So many of the members say things like "we need a prophet to tell us what to do ..." etc. I cringe when I hear this. No! We need to be prophets unto ourselves and our family. The prophet is to guide the church as a whole, but you have just as much right, and more, to guide yourself under the direction of the HG. No man has superior right over you than you yourself, whether the man is Gordon B. Hinkley, or anyone else. You are responsible for you. If you rest on your ass with the fluffy idea that the prophet will tell you when you really need to do this or that, then, I believe, you will be in a world of hurt. Men (ALL MEN) are fallible. It is up to you to make absolutely sure you are being led by the HG. It is not for you to leave it for another MAN to do it for you. BY was right, the leaders can lead people astray. They are human, they are capable of anything.

outlier · 11-11-2005, 08:23 PM

Cool sentiments.

IMHO, religion, even the *true religion*, exists for one purpose: to help humans develop their individual relationships to God and reach personal exaltation. But it's a *personal* exaltation.

O

ute4ever · 11-11-2005, 09:11 PM

Interesting.

There is a lengthy thread on another message board forum that I frequent, the topic being is it okay to disobey something President Packer says. The thread has shown there are a lot of people who believe everything that comes out of the mouth of the brethren is doctrinal.

Note that in 1978, Elder Bruce R. McConkie gave a devotional address and said the blacks would never receive the priesthood.

It is apparent that many of the brethren's talks are their opinions, speaking to us as a wise grandfather who has been around the world. A person should not use their public addresses as a Cliffs Notes substitute for having a personal relationship with the holy spirit.

Parrot Head · 11-11-2005, 09:24 PM

This seems to approach some of the underlying themes of the DoM book and recognizing the foibles of our leaders, their disagreements on issues, especially the topic of blacks and the priesthood, etc. As I was following President Hinckley's challenge to read the Book of Mormon (per BY, should I not be adhering to his challenge? :wink

I got to Samuel in Helaman. Then I remembered when Christ came and asked why Samuel's story had not been recorded in the scriptures and I see that as a parallel to my first sentence addressing human foibles, race relations, and the words of BRM.

So basically, it didn't just happen in the 20th century.

SteelBlue · 11-11-2005, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute4ever

Interesting.

There is a lengthy thread on another message board forum that I frequent, the topic being is it okay to disobey something President Packer says. The thread has shown there are a lot of people who believe everything that comes out of the mouth of the brethren is doctrinal.

A simple look into very basic church history should put an end to that debate.

stonewallperry · 06-27-2006, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fusnik11

B. BRIGHAM YOUNG: "I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken the influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not." (Discourses of Brigham Young, John A Widtsoe, pg. 136).

"The First Presidency have a right of great influence over this people; and if we should get out of the way and lead this people to destruction, what a pity it would be! How can you know whether we lead you correctly or not? Can you know by any other power than that of the Holy Ghost? I have uniformly exhorted the people to obtain this living witness, each for themselves; then no man on earth can lead them astray." (Discourses of Brigham Young, pg. 137).

so much for blind obedience, and following the prophet regardless what they say.

So, does what the current prophet say have precedence over a previous prophet? Of course! If that weren't the case, blacks still wouldn't have the priesthood. Wilford Woodruff came after BY, and we all know what he said.

Cali Coug · 06-27-2006, 10:33 PM

Where were you guys for this thread?

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showpos...40&postcount=1

I was beginning to feel a bit alone in my belief!

livecoug · 06-27-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoyacoug

Where were you guys for this thread?

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showpos...40&postcount=1

I was beginning to feel a bit alone in my belief!

it was too long.. i have self diagnosed ADD

RockyBalboa · 06-28-2006, 01:38 AM

So for example if President Hinckley comes out with an inspired document about the Proclamation of the Family and then The head of the church says that gay marriage is an abomination and threat to the family does that come directly from Jesus Christ himself?

The answer obviously is yes.

The rest is for us to decide whether we have it within ourselves to humble ourselves and realize if this is true or not.

Should we follow something blindly? Of course not, that would be foolish. I do however find it interesting when a prophet of God such as President Hinckley says something of this magnitude that so many people are clueless to the fact that they in reality they are questioning Jesus Christ's direct command and revelation to HIS church about something like this.

It's sad that some are so concerned about what the outside world thinks of things such as this, then combined with political belief that they're unable to humble themselves in the name of political correctness and misguided interpretations. They'll twist words such as "Gay marriage is wrong and is a threat to the family" into saying that's not what the prophet really meant or that the church is handling this wrong. Basically you're saying Jesus Christ handled it wrong.

That's just one example mind you.

11-11-2005, 07:55 PM	#1
fusnik11 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,506	found some interesting quotes by brigham young.... B. BRIGHAM YOUNG: "I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken the influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not." (Discourses of Brigham Young, John A Widtsoe, pg. 136). "The First Presidency have a right of great influence over this people; and if we should get out of the way and lead this people to destruction, what a pity it would be! How can you know whether we lead you correctly or not? Can you know by any other power than that of the Holy Ghost? I have uniformly exhorted the people to obtain this living witness, each for themselves; then no man on earth can lead them astray." (Discourses of Brigham Young, pg. 137). so much for blind obedience, and following the prophet regardless what they say.

11-11-2005, 08:04 PM	#2
Dan Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Elk Grove, California Posts: 211	Don't you know Fusnik ... ... we are to "follow the prophet, he knows the way". Brigham is not the prophet anymore, so forget about what he said. I say that tongue in cheek, but what BY said is dead on, IMO, to what we face today. So many of the members say things like "we need a prophet to tell us what to do ..." etc. I cringe when I hear this. No! We need to be prophets unto ourselves and our family. The prophet is to guide the church as a whole, but you have just as much right, and more, to guide yourself under the direction of the HG. No man has superior right over you than you yourself, whether the man is Gordon B. Hinkley, or anyone else. You are responsible for you. If you rest on your ass with the fluffy idea that the prophet will tell you when you really need to do this or that, then, I believe, you will be in a world of hurt. Men (ALL MEN) are fallible. It is up to you to make absolutely sure you are being led by the HG. It is not for you to leave it for another MAN to do it for you. BY was right, the leaders can lead people astray. They are human, they are capable of anything. __________________ Dan Temet Nosce - \"Know Thyself\"

11-11-2005, 08:23 PM	#3
outlier Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 180	Cool sentiments. IMHO, religion, even the true religion, exists for one purpose: to help humans develop their individual relationships to God and reach personal exaltation. But it's a personal exaltation. O __________________ Es irrt der Mensch solang er strebt. -J. W. v. Goethe (OTOH, just because you screw up, that doesn\'t mean you\'re getting somewhere.) The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter. - W. Churchill

06-28-2006, 01:38 AM	#10
RockyBalboa Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 7,297	So for example if President Hinckley comes out with an inspired document about the Proclamation of the Family and then The head of the church says that gay marriage is an abomination and threat to the family does that come directly from Jesus Christ himself? The answer obviously is yes. The rest is for us to decide whether we have it within ourselves to humble ourselves and realize if this is true or not. Should we follow something blindly? Of course not, that would be foolish. I do however find it interesting when a prophet of God such as President Hinckley says something of this magnitude that so many people are clueless to the fact that they in reality they are questioning Jesus Christ's direct command and revelation to HIS church about something like this. It's sad that some are so concerned about what the outside world thinks of things such as this, then combined with political belief that they're unable to humble themselves in the name of political correctness and misguided interpretations. They'll twist words such as "Gay marriage is wrong and is a threat to the family" into saying that's not what the prophet really meant or that the church is handling this wrong. Basically you're saying Jesus Christ handled it wrong. That's just one example mind you. __________________ Masquerading as Cougarguards very own genius dumbass since 05'.

11-11-2005, 09:11 PM	#4
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	Interesting. There is a lengthy thread on another message board forum that I frequent, the topic being is it okay to disobey something President Packer says. The thread has shown there are a lot of people who believe everything that comes out of the mouth of the brethren is doctrinal. Note that in 1978, Elder Bruce R. McConkie gave a devotional address and said the blacks would never receive the priesthood. It is apparent that many of the brethren's talks are their opinions, speaking to us as a wise grandfather who has been around the world. A person should not use their public addresses as a Cliffs Notes substitute for having a personal relationship with the holy spirit.

11-11-2005, 09:24 PM	#5
Parrot Head Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 763	This seems to approach some of the underlying themes of the DoM book and recognizing the foibles of our leaders, their disagreements on issues, especially the topic of blacks and the priesthood, etc. As I was following President Hinckley's challenge to read the Book of Mormon (per BY, should I not be adhering to his challenge? :wink I got to Samuel in Helaman. Then I remembered when Christ came and asked why Samuel's story had not been recorded in the scriptures and I see that as a parallel to my first sentence addressing human foibles, race relations, and the words of BRM. So basically, it didn't just happen in the 20th century.

06-27-2006, 10:33 PM	#8
Cali Coug Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,996	Where were you guys for this thread? http://cougarguard.com/forum/showpos...40&postcount=1 I was beginning to feel a bit alone in my belief!