found some interesting quotes by brigham young....

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Dan

... we are to "follow the prophet, he knows the way". Brigham is not the prophet anymore, so forget about what he said. I say that tongue in cheek, but what BY said is dead on, IMO, to what we face today. So many of the members say things like "we need a prophet to tell us what to do ..." etc. I cringe when I hear this. No! We need to be prophets unto ourselves and our family. The prophet is to guide the church as a whole, but you have just as much right, and more, to guide yourself under the direction of the HG. No man has superior right over you than you yourself, whether the man is Gordon B. Hinkley, or anyone else. You are responsible for you. If you rest on your ass with the fluffy idea that the prophet will tell you when you really need to do this or that, then, I believe, you will be in a world of hurt. Men (ALL MEN) are fallible. It is up to you to make absolutely sure you are being led by the HG. It is not for you to leave it for another MAN to do it for you. BY was right, the leaders can lead people astray. They are human, they are capable of anything.

I think there are two seperate issues here. The first one is that we should not be commanded in all things and should be anxiouslty engaged in a good cause. This means that we should be proactive not just in our actions, but also in our thoughts in terms of obtaining a witness for ourselves regarding any number of things.

The second issue, and apparently where I part company with many around here, is that the idea of obtaining our own witnesses, particularly since the prophet and other church leaders are imperfect, is stretched into this idea that what the Prophet says carries no particular wieght, is frequently wrong, and that we are situated just as well to know what we ought to do or not do as he is.

While I agree that we are given only very general guidance on most things and that it is up to us to figure out particular applications of principles to situations, 99.99% of the time the right answer is to follow the counsel of the prophet. I certainly agree that exceptions always exist to the general principle (the proclamation on familes says this specficially), I just cringe at the idea some seem to have adopted that the prophet's advice is for the church generally and not for us individually, as though the church and the members were two different things.

P.S. I have also concluded that most who are advancing the view I am talking about are doing so only because, or primarily because, they need to to justify their opposition to the church's view on gay marriage. I believe this is a case of making the argument fit the facts for most.

[stonewallperry]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I think there are two seperate issues here. The first one is that we should not be commanded in all things and should be anxiouslty engaged in a good cause. This means that we should be proactive not just in our actions, but also in our thoughts in terms of obtaining a witness for ourselves regarding any number of things.

The second issue, and apparently where I part company with many around here, is that the idea of obtaining our own witnesses, particularly since the prophet and other church leaders are imperfect, is stretched into this idea that what the Prophet says carries no particular wieght, is frequently wrong, and that we are situated just as well to know what we ought to do or not do as he is.

While I agree that we are given only very general guidance on most things and that it is up to us to figure out particular applications of principles to situations, 99.99% of the time the right answer is to follow the counsel of the prophet. I certainly agree that exceptions always exist to the general principle (the proclamation on familes says this specficially), I just cringe at the idea some seem to have adopted that the prophet's advice is for the church generally and not for us individually, as though the church and the members were two different things.

P.S. I have also concluded that most who are advancing the view I am talking about are doing so only because, or primarily because, they need to to justify their opposition to the church's view on gay marriage. I believe this is a case of making the argument fit the facts for most.

Great post. I would argue that almost anytime people push the view you justified, it's because they are trying to fit their opinion into what is correct or looking for justification for some behavior or opinion. Rather than change to be the way the Lord would have them be, they would brush it off as merely the ramblings of a confused old man. They expect to have an explanation for everything, and to understand everything. They forget that the Lord has never said that what He says or does will be PC, nor that He will explain himself to us everytime He does something.