The Church on the Wrong Side of History Again

[Gidget]

Please someone respond to me I am going insane!!!

[Jim Swarthout]

Originally Posted by Gidget

Please someone respond to me I am going insane!!!

It's called cognitive dissonance and it can be a real mofo.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Gidget

I'm late on this one (as usual, my day job as a mother must be very busy or something) but I read the article and felt myself feeling "yeah stick it to 'em Joe" but then logic (submissive blind lamb) took over and I was left with guilt. Which makes me realize that I am SO on the fence on this issue, and doesn't the Bible say that is the worst place to be? I feel positively green and two years old when I think of Prop 8. I consider myself an intelligent person with strong opinions and I can't tell if I am just shaken that this one isn't so strong or if I am experiencing that LDS leadership guilt mongering thing. Probably both. I am sad and confused at the church's obnoxious outpouring of support for Prop 8 combined with their lack of even a small mention to many other national/international political atrocities. And as lame as this sounds, I don't know what that means for my testimony. I still feel like the Church is true. Have no plans to leave ever - is anyone else experiencing this awkward volley?

I think many here have had to look very carerully at this issue and have navigated throught the maze using their own bearings. It is a complicated set of issues and I do not think there are easy answers. Do not mistake resolute action for unreasoned decision-making.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Gidget

I'm late on this one (as usual, my day job as a mother must be very busy or something) but I read the article and felt myself feeling "yeah stick it to 'em Joe" but then logic (submissive blind lamb) took over and I was left with guilt. Which makes me realize that I am SO on the fence on this issue, and doesn't the Bible say that is the worst place to be? I feel positively green and two years old when I think of Prop 8. I consider myself an intelligent person with strong opinions and I can't tell if I am just shaken that this one isn't so strong or if I am experiencing that LDS leadership guilt mongering thing. Probably both. I am sad and confused at the church's obnoxious outpouring of support for Prop 8 combined with their lack of even a small mention to many other national/international political atrocities. And as lame as this sounds, I don't know what that means for my testimony. I still feel like the Church is true. Have no plans to leave ever - is anyone else experiencing this awkward volley?

I suspect we all have moments like this, whether with Prop 8 or with something else. In my opinion, what you're experiencing is quite normal.

One thing I'd like to get clarification on: "lack of even a small mention of many other national/international political atrocities." I'm not sure you meant by this vague statement, but as I'm sure you know, the church is extensively involved in relief efforts all over the globe. You ought to give them a little credit.

[Gidget]

Originally Posted by Tex

I suspect we all have moments like this, whether with Prop 8 or with something else. In my opinion, what you're experiencing is quite normal.

One thing I'd like to get clarification on: "lack of even a small mention of many other national/international political atrocities." I'm not sure you meant by this vague statement, but as I'm sure you know, the church is extensively involved in relief efforts all over the globe. You ought to give them a little credit.

I should have made my statement more specific. My bad. I do think the Church's relief efforts worldwide should not go without praise. I meant more like their lack of commentary on other political issues that confront us on moral grounds as well as political.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Gidget

I should have made my statement more specific. My bad. I do think the Church's relief efforts worldwide should not go without praise. I meant more like their lack of commentary on other political issues that confront us on moral grounds as well as political.

Bear in mind that, but for a less than 3k travel reimbursement, "the Church" has not donated to the prop 8 campaign. Instead, it has all been individual donors. OTOH, "The Church" has donated much to many relief efforts.

I think there is a lot of commentary all the time on other issues, there is just rarely such a specific request to devote resources to support an issue.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Gidget

I should have made my statement more specific. My bad. I do think the Church's relief efforts worldwide should not go without praise. I meant more like their lack of commentary on other political issues that confront us on moral grounds as well as political.

I hope we focus less on issues of "public" morality and refocus upon issues of personal morality.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Originally Posted by Gidget

Please someone respond to me I am going insane!!!

As has been lamentably well-documented, my BIL, Morris Thurston, has taken a lot of flak because of an article he published critiquing a Pro-8 memorandum from a legal perspective. He did so because, as an active Church member, he was concerned by what he perceives as a lot of inaccuracies in the arguments advanced by certain proponents. He hasn't criticized anything coming directly from the Church. Some, including a small mob on CB, have urged that a disciplinary council be convened against him. But he has been told by Church officials there's no problem with what he's done. This is consistent with a statement reported in Sunday's Salt Lake Tribune, that "Latter-day Saints are free to disagree with their church on the issue without facing any sanction, said L. Whitney Clayton of the LDS Quorum of the Seventy. 'We love them and bear them no ill will.'"

That same issue included a column by Robert Kirby, an active LDS member, that's pretty funny. Quoth Kirby:

The only serious concern I have about gays getting married is that they'll register someplace pricey. The church is serious about the sanctity of marriage. I get that. But aren't more potentially "dangerous" marriages already being performed out there? For example, I hear in church all the time about marriage being ordained of God. But I also hear about how the glory of God is intelligence.
Shouldn't it be against the law for stupid people to get married? What's more harmful to society - two well-dressed men getting married and settling down, or two idiots tying the knot and cranking out any number of additional idiots? You should have to pass a harder test to get married than the one we currently have. Essentially, there are but two questions: "How old are you?" and "Is that your sister?" Hell, you could pass this test just by guessing.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10798657

[SoCalCoug]

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

That same issue included a column by Robert Kirby, an active LDS member, that's pretty funny. Quoth Kirby:

The only serious concern I have about gays getting married is that they'll register someplace pricey. The church is serious about the sanctity of marriage. I get that. But aren't more potentially "dangerous" marriages already being performed out there? For example, I hear in church all the time about marriage being ordained of God. But I also hear about how the glory of God is intelligence.
Shouldn't it be against the law for stupid people to get married? What's more harmful to society - two well-dressed men getting married and settling down, or two idiots tying the knot and cranking out any number of additional idiots? You should have to pass a harder test to get married than the one we currently have. Essentially, there are but two questions: "How old are you?" and "Is that your sister?" Hell, you could pass this test just by guessing.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10798657

Man, Kirby's gained some weight in the last 10 years.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

Man, Kirby's gained some weight in the last 10 years.

So if we eliminate morally defunct people for matching, fat people from matching, and allowed only perfect people to match, we could emulate Ricardo Monteban?