11-11-2008, 11:55 PM | #11 | |
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Yawn... I'm really not dying to start this debate again. We're never going to agree on this. Gay people don't seem to be satisfied with the label of civil union and I can understand why not. You don't agree with them. Ok...got it. Let's move on. |
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11-11-2008, 11:56 PM | #12 | |
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For what percentage of gay people must gayness by immutable for you to believe that gay people deserve the right to marry? Just curious. |
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11-12-2008, 12:22 AM | #13 | |
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I think if two consenting adults are in romantic love and want to get married that's good enough for me in terms of proof of immutability as the record now stands. The romantic urge runs deep, and may be what makes all the blood sweat and tears worthwhile in the end. I think that is what they are. Let me clarify. If it were not an immutable characteristic (which I can't fathom, like I can't fathom nothingness) I might support gay marriage for some of the public policy reasons stated here. But if it's not immutable it's not a civil rights issue and I become close to indifferent about the issue. If it's a choice, marriage is not foreclosed. They can marry someone of opposite gender. If it's a choice, I think there does exist a principled distinction on which to deny marriage to gays. Civil rights is about immutability.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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11-12-2008, 12:25 AM | #14 | |
Charon
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"... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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11-12-2008, 12:27 AM | #15 | |
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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11-12-2008, 12:31 AM | #16 | |
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(I agree with 3D that pedophilia is a red herring becuase it involves children who lack ability to consent and are victims.)
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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11-12-2008, 12:33 AM | #17 |
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Feel free to reframe my question. Help me to help YOU, 3D.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
11-12-2008, 01:49 AM | #18 | |
Charon
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We have been rehashing the old "is gay a choice" question. And rehashing... and rehashing.... You know when creekster told you fuck off the other day? He had been reading one too many threads on this topic. It pushed him over the edge. Of course. Only an idiot would compare homosexuality to pedophilia.
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"... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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11-12-2008, 02:00 AM | #19 |
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Gay behavior was historically viewed as an enigma, it wasn't understood, and wasn't discussed. When it became more apparent, it was considered not socially acceptable.
Other behaviors may be genetically linked and considered socially undesirable. Immutability alone does not normalize it. If so, should we legitimize alcoholic behavior even by consenting adults? I have compassion for those so oriented, and truly have no theological explanation for why nature creates such orientation, but the fact it exists does not make it beneficial for the species or the individual so conditioned.
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11-12-2008, 02:11 AM | #20 |
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I seem to recall trying to have this debate before. . . .
I did think of one way to "test" mutability, and sure enough, so had others: http://worldpolicy.org/projects/glob...ent/twins.html And here is one interpretation of this and similar data: http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=155
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εν αρχη ην ο λογος Last edited by All-American; 11-12-2008 at 02:13 AM. |
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