Today was historic

[MikeWaters]

A Helot was elected head of Sparta.

Has this ever happened before in the history of the world? That an "untouchable" rose to become the head of the most powerful nation/empire in the world?

America today, showed the rest of the world, that this is the land where anyone can be anything. Not just in theory. But in practice.

Let us celebrate today.

Tomorrow, however, is a different story.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

A Helot was elected head of Sparta.

Has this ever happened before in the history of the world? That an "untouchable" rose to become the head of the most powerful nation/empire in the world?

America today, showed the rest of the world, that this is the land where anyone can be anything. Not just in theory. But in practice.

they were interviewing a Brit who was so excited about what this represented for America and the world. Then they asked her if she thought a minority could ever be elected prime minister. She said, "Surely you must be joking."

[Tex]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

they were interviewing a Brit who was so excited about what this represented for America and the world. Then they asked her if she thought a minority could ever be elected prime minister. She said, "Surely you must be joking."

Not if immigration continues the way it has. They'll have a Muslim Prime Minister in Britain, and maybe one in France too.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

A Helot was elected head of Sparta.

Has this ever happened before in the history of the world? That an "untouchable" rose to become the head of the most powerful nation/empire in the world?

Marcus Tullius Cicero
Gaius Marius

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by All-American

Marcus Tullius Cicero
Gaius Marius

sorry, don't see it.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

sorry, don't see it.

Novi Homines, both of them. A Novus Homo was the first man in his family to serve in the Senate. Both became consuls of Rome. Gaius Marius was reelected six times-- a thing absolutely unheard of in the Republic to that point. The only other consul who had been reelected was Quintus Fabius Maximus, the general who fought against Hannibal in the Second Punic War. Cicero saved the Republic from the Catilinarian conspiracy.

Two "untouchables" that rose to become the head of the most powerful nation/empire in the world.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by All-American

Novi Homines, both of them. A Novus Homo was the first man in his family to serve in the Senate. Both became consuls of Rome. Gaius Marius was reelected six times-- a thing absolutely unheard of in the Republic to that point. The only other consul who had been reelected was Quintus Fabius Maximus, the general who fought against Hannibal in the Second Punic War. Cicero saved the Republic from the Catilinarian conspiracy.

Two "untouchables" that rose to become the head of the most powerful nation/empire in the world.

I can read wikipedia too. That is not the same thing as a person from an enslaved colored population rising to the top.

[All-American]

Here's a good little speech of Marius, from Sallust's Bellum Jugurthinum:

Originally Posted by Gaius Marius

Compare now, citizens, with their arrogance ME, a new man. What they commonly hear and read, I saw part of them and done others myself; what they have learned through schooling I have learned by commanding. Now you decide whether words or deeds are greater. They scorn my newness, and I, their faintheartedness; for me, it was fortune, and for them, their disgraceful conduct that was the hindrance. Nevertheless, I hold that the nature of all is one and the same, but he who is the bravest is the noblest. And if it were now possible to ask the fathers of Albinus or Bestia whether the would prefer that I or THEY were begotten of them, what do you suppose they would say in response, except that they wished that their children would be the very best possible?

If they are right to scorn me, they likewise scorn their ancestors from whose virtue (as it seems to me) their nobility arose. They look down upon my rank; therefore, they despise my labor, my innocence, and the perils I faced, since I claimed it through them. Indeed, men corrupted by arrogance thus lead out their lives as though they have contempt for your honors, yet they seek them as though they had lived honorably. Certainly these men are deceived who look equally for these most different things, the joy of laziness and virtue's prize. And indeed, when they speak to you or in the senate, they often extoll their ancestors in their speech, and think that they make themselves more eminent by speaking of their brave deeds. Which is hardly the case. For as much more eminent the lives of THOSE men were, the laziness of THESE men become that much more shameful. And certainly this is the way it is: the glory of the predecessors is as a light to their posterity, and neither their good nor evil deeds lie hidden. I confess that I have none of these things, citizens, but I can speak of my own deeds, which is much more dignified. Now see how wicked they are! That which they claim as their own by the virtue of others they do not concede to me from my own virtue, certainly because I don't have their ancestral images and because my nobility is new to me, which is certainly better to have acquired than to have corrupted once received.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I can read wikipedia too. That is not the same thing as a person from an enslaved colored population rising to the top.

If you don't see the significance, then you should read past wikipedia.