How True do you think the Book of Mormon is? - Page 7 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Indy Coug · 04-30-2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

About the names of places....the number of places in a given area is truly staggering. Texas by itself has so many tiny towns and hamlets that I probably would not recognize 75% of them.

Someone should go through the exercise of matching BoM names with Texas towns. I think you'd be surprised that I bet the same argument could be made.

People will fire arrows at the BoM from afar, because they known they can't do hand to hand combat. They know that they have no real explanation for it.

Has SU even ventured his opinion as to its origins? The BoM rings true on its own.

Check out the name of this place that is just one mile north of my house:

http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguid...ry_allentown-i

Archaea · 04-30-2007, 02:06 PM

I know we've had this discussion before, but...

After one dissembles the claims of the BoM, one is still left shaking one's head.

First, how coudl a poorly educated man, who was a man interested in magic and treasure, produce a work of its complexity. (The usual answer is, he didn't; which begs the question, where is this mysterious "real" author? Wouldn't some evidence of true authorship have come forward?).

Second, there are three witnesses not related to Joseph Smith and ones who didn't remain active in the faith for their whole lives that never recanted their testimonies. That alone is not "proof" but it is interesting. This isn't first century, but recent in historical terms. (Don't you think Sidney Rigdon may have tried to dissemble what JS did after separation?)

Third, how could a work contain vestiges of Greek classical learning and Hebraic trends?

Those are the first three questions which always arise every time I dissemble its origins. Because we as members have a sanitized version, and disbelievers take it as a complete fraud, not all the pieces fit together.

myboynoah · 04-30-2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

About the names of places....the number of places in a given area is truly staggering. Texas by itself has so many tiny towns and hamlets that I probably would not recognize 75% of them.

Someone should go through the exercise of matching BoM names with Texas towns. I think you'd be surprised that I bet the same argument could be made.

People will fire arrows at the BoM from afar, because they known they can't do hand to hand combat. They know that they have no real explanation for it.

Has SU even ventured his opinion as to its origins? The BoM rings true on its own.

Yeah, I think the list and map are embarassingly weak. I'm supposed to believe that Joe Smith looks at a map and actually finds Alma, WV? And then uses that for not only two main characters but also for a book in the BofM? Does anybody here know anything about Alma, WV? I appears to be nothing now and was nothing then. I doubt it even ever appeared on any map to which Joe Smith might have had access.

So much work after so much folly.

MikeWaters · 04-30-2007, 02:35 PM

Maybe JS saw the thoroughfare "Alma Road" in Dallas in vision and used it.

Never underestimate the power of a weak argument to dissuade he who wishes to walk away.

I mean, for some people the Krakauer book was a revelation.

myboynoah · 04-30-2007, 02:44 PM

What I find funny is that Jerusalem finds its way onto that list.

This must have been a numbers game.

SeattleUte · 04-30-2007, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Maybe JS saw the thoroughfare "Alma Road" in Dallas in vision and used it.

Never underestimate the power of a weak argument to dissuade he who wishes to walk away.

I mean, for some people the Krakauer book was a revelation.

I think what's more likely is he read those names from Reformed Egyptian inscribed on solid gold plates that were subsequently taken to heaven by an angel.

Archaea · 04-30-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I think what's more likely is he read those names from Reformed Egyptian inscribed on solid gold plates that were subsequently taken to heaven by an angel.

But this kinda begs the question.

If, JS, didn't write it, who did, and how do we know that that person lived in the same area and was aware of all of those names?

Here we have a poor, uneducated, "lazy" youth, who chased "treasure" and "magic", how could such a lad have concocted it without anybody being the wiser?

jay santos · 04-30-2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

Because we as members have a sanitized version,

Just curious, what do you mean by this?

Archaea · 04-30-2007, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

Just curious, what do you mean by this?

Just think about what you taught as the First Vision and what's in the Pearl of Great Price.

It's a neatly shorn down version of his history.

Then compare with Bushman's and "Brodie's fiction".

Is there anything in their about his fascination with magic or treasure hunting?

Now the First Vision claims he was hated for having told people he had seen a vision. Closer inspection doesn't seem to bear that out.

Everything taught to the average member is completely laudatory and hagiographic. He was a giant among men, won all athletic contests, translated foreign languages without effort.

Do we talk about the sticking his head in a hat? Do we talk about his whistle or the fact his wife said, he couldn't even pen his own letters?

Mind you, I believe JS was a remarkable individual, who grew into his prophet's role. I don't know what to make of the polyandry, never have known, never will.

Yet the average member only sees him as super man against the world leaping small continents in a single bound.

Indy Coug · 04-30-2007, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

Just think about what you taught as the First Vision and what's in the Pearl of Great Price.

It's a neatly shorn down version of his history.

Then compare with Bushman's and "Brodie's fiction".

Is there anything in their about his fascination with magic or treasure hunting?

Now the First Vision claims he was hated for having told people he had seen a vision. Closer inspection doesn't seem to bear that out.

Everything taught to the average member is completely laudatory and hagiographic. He was a giant among men, won all athletic contests, translated foreign languages without effort.

Do we talk about the sticking his head in a hat? Do we talk about his whistle or the fact his wife said, he couldn't even pen his own letters?

Mind you, I believe JS was a remarkable individual, who grew into his prophet's role. I don't know what to make of the polyandry, never have known, never will.

Yet the average member only sees him as super man against the world leaping small continents in a single bound.

Yep. That's a balanced interpretation of things, Archy.

View Poll Results: How True do you think the Book of Mormon is?
Every word of it is true.	8	22.86%
It's mostly true, but with a couple of errors.	11	31.43%
The events are more or less true, but reported with an extreme historical bias.	6	17.14%
The text could very roughly correlate to a plausible series of events.	3	8.57%
Some Joe pulled the thing out of his hat. It's false.	7	20.00%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

04-30-2007, 02:06 PM	#62
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	I know we've had this discussion before, but... After one dissembles the claims of the BoM, one is still left shaking one's head. First, how coudl a poorly educated man, who was a man interested in magic and treasure, produce a work of its complexity. (The usual answer is, he didn't; which begs the question, where is this mysterious "real" author? Wouldn't some evidence of true authorship have come forward?). Second, there are three witnesses not related to Joseph Smith and ones who didn't remain active in the faith for their whole lives that never recanted their testimonies. That alone is not "proof" but it is interesting. This isn't first century, but recent in historical terms. (Don't you think Sidney Rigdon may have tried to dissemble what JS did after separation?) Third, how could a work contain vestiges of Greek classical learning and Hebraic trends? Those are the first three questions which always arise every time I dissemble its origins. Because we as members have a sanitized version, and disbelievers take it as a complete fraud, not all the pieces fit together. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

04-30-2007, 02:44 PM	#65
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	What I find funny is that Jerusalem finds its way onto that list. This must have been a numbers game. __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

04-30-2007, 02:35 PM	#64
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Maybe JS saw the thoroughfare "Alma Road" in Dallas in vision and used it. Never underestimate the power of a weak argument to dissuade he who wishes to walk away. I mean, for some people the Krakauer book was a revelation.