The Book of Judas

[Colly Wolly]

seriously dude your stubborness has led you to mass levels of ignorance on so many levels....[/quote]

That's alot of levels...

[jay santos]

OK, I haven't read my Jesus the Christ in many moons and can't really remember exactly what the effect of Judas' actions, but was his role that necessary? All he did was tip off to the Roman soldiers who Jesus was, right? Jesus was a pretty public figure. They were gonna get him eventually even if they had to go back to find someone else to identify him. No? How do you equate Judas' role with Adam's?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by jay santos

OK, I haven't read my Jesus the Christ in many moons and can't really remember exactly what the effect of Judas' actions, but was his role that necessary? All he did was tip off to the Roman soldiers who Jesus was, right? Jesus was a pretty public figure. They were gonna get him eventually even if they had to go back to find someone else to identify him. No? How do you equate Judas' role with Adam's?

Good point. I've always wondered about that. How hard could it have been for the soldiers to find him eventually?


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[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think there needs to be a new addendum to the Bible. "Judas Strikes Back."

Hats off to you Mike Waters. That is the funniest thing I have seen all day.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by jay santos

OK, I haven't read my Jesus the Christ in many moons and can't really remember exactly what the effect of Judas' actions, but was his role that necessary? All he did was tip off to the Roman soldiers who Jesus was, right? Jesus was a pretty public figure. They were gonna get him eventually even if they had to go back to find someone else to identify him. No? How do you equate Judas' role with Adam's?

I don't equate Judas' role with Adam's. What I'm referring to is that his role and the specifics thereof were prophesied 1000 years before he was even born. Seeing that these prophecies would have to be fulfilled it can make ones head hurt trying to figure out what kind of choice he had in the matter. And, was he called to the position solely because it was known what he would do? Sure, I understand he technically had his agency all along and the Lord just knew what he would do. But it's still interesting to think about. Here are a few references:

Psalms 41:9 "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me." (Note: Chapter heading states "Treachery of Judas foretold).

Zechariah 11:12 "..."So they weighed for my price 30 pieces of silver." (Chpter heading states "Messiah shall be betrayed for thirty pieces of silver)

John 13: 26-31 "Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.
For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.
He then having received the sop went immediately out; and it was night.
Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him."
(italics added by me).

Acts 1:16 "Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus."

[ute4ever]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

Fusnik 1 Johnny Lingo 0

Yeah on this thread.

Overall, I believe it is more like 50-0.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by ute4ever

Yeah on this thread.

Overall, I believe it is more like 50-0.

John 17:12

Jesus, via John, refers to Judas as a 'Son of Perdition.'

And THAT my friends is a SLAM-FREAKING-DUNK.

Okay, so I was saying MODERN prophets, and when I said that I was specifically thinking of Talmage, who was probably the most long-winded. But this was something I was taught from day one, by my parents, by my mission president, by Talmage, and in my New Testiment classes at BYU. The teaching is so ubiquitous, and John 17:12 is so clear, that I assumed that more modern prophets than Talmage had spoken on the matter.

I MIGHT be wrong, but I doubt it.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by Robin

John 17:12

Jesus, via John, refers to Judas as a 'Son of Perdition.'

And THAT my friends is a SLAM-FREAKING-DUNK.

You'll get no argument from me that this has been the teaching of the church from day one. I find the issue interesting because it seems Judas' fate was determined. When you quote the rest of John 17:12 we read:

...and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

When you throw in the passages that I quoted above you can get the sense that Judas was born to fail. Chosen because he would fail. That is why I find this new Book of Judas find so interesting. That the guy had a spin machine working for him 180 plus years after he died is fascinating.

[Surfah]

I have always been taught and believed Judas to be a son of perdition.

That said, I do not believe Judas' fate was sealed or determined. Had Judas not betrayed the Savior, another would have of his own accord. I have heard some speculate that of all the disciples, Judas held the most firm testimony of the Savior's divinity. And thirty pieces of silver was not the reward he was after, but for the Savior to save himself to show the world what he (Judas) knew to be true. And also, why he became a son of perdition, because his knowledge of the Savior's divinity was sure.

While these recent findings are interesting, they are overtly gnostic and as others have suggested, do more to bring to light the Christian climate in the two centuries after Christ's death than to diminish the faith of the Christian faithful.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by surfah33

That said, I do not believe Judas' fate was sealed or determined. Had Judas not betrayed the Savior, another would have of his own accord.

Here's where it gets interesting for me. I agree with your statement, but it has always been tough to wrap my mind around. The old testament prophecies were fairly specific. So let's say Judas decides to do the right thing. How does somebody step in and fulfill the specifics of those prophecies? In the end, it seems that while our fates are not determined, God knows what we're going to do.

Originally Posted by surfah33

While these recent findings are interesting, they are overtly gnostic and as others have suggested, do more to bring to light the Christian climate in the two centuries after Christ's death than to diminish the faith of the Christian faithful.

True. But very interesting nonetheless. It's not everyday we get to read about a find like this.