02-27-2008, 05:36 PM | #21 | |
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02-27-2008, 06:09 PM | #22 | |
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On education and marriage, my wife, Sainted Molly Mormon Mullah that she is, is very nazi on this issue. She tells the girls that getting their education should be a priority and to make that clear to any suitors. She also abhors the Mormon cultural practice of YW getting married at 19-21; 24 makes much more sense to her. She applied all of the above to me and I buckled like Steve Tate against BYU.
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Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith. |
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02-27-2008, 06:10 PM | #23 | ||
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FWIW, I did say it was my opinion. And thanks for the backhanded compliment, Tex (seriously). Seriously? Quote:
There is a considerable degree of cognitive dissonance when assessing the LDS views of women. On the one hand, there are multiple GA quotes that stress couples be "equally yoked," emphasize the importance/equality of women, etc. On the other hand, the temple teaches LDS that women can access God only through their husbands and their marriage vows are different from men's, placing them in an inferior position (no sex jokes intended). There are different protocols for calling and sustaining Melchezidek priesthood offices in the ward than for comparable Relief Society callings (the entire ward "votes" on female officers; only male priesthood holders "vote" on EQ officers). And, before you trot out the GA quotes or Family Proclamation, consider that these different-but-equal identities have been formulated almost exclusively by male LDS leadership. Need more? http://www.margarettoscano.com/?p=8 The LDS church emphasizes the importance of both priesthood authority and obedience to this authority. Since priesthood is an exclusively male office, this effectively becomes obedience to male authority. I understand there are provisions that women should only obey their husbands/priesthood authority as long as he/they are righteous, but those are fairly recent qualifications. De facto, the word of the priesthood (male) is law. While I recognize there are exceptions, the issues besetting female roles and identity in the LDS church continue to be a disturbing topic for me.
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02-27-2008, 06:16 PM | #24 |
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No - it was rhetorical. My point was that it's hard to tell what affect 'LDS teachings' had with the 'messed up girls'.
Overall, I'm happy my kids are learning the precepts of the gospel. All the little things like whether they should go to college or not are things I hope I ingrain on them myself. |
02-27-2008, 06:17 PM | #25 |
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Are any of you women? Can we get a female response?
eom
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02-27-2008, 06:27 PM | #26 | |
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You devil, you.
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She had a psychiatrist who said because I didn't trust the water system, the school system, the government, I was paranoid," he said. "I had a psychiatrist who said her psychiatrist was stupid." |
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02-27-2008, 06:29 PM | #27 |
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She had a psychiatrist who said because I didn't trust the water system, the school system, the government, I was paranoid," he said. "I had a psychiatrist who said her psychiatrist was stupid." |
02-27-2008, 06:39 PM | #28 | |
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As for the sustaining processes, yes they are somewhat different, though you'll note the entire ward sustains the Bishopric together, as does the entire stake the Stake Presidency. Ditto other prominent positions, such as Ward Mission Leader, High Council member, etc. Also note that Elders do not sustain High Priests, and vice versa. In other words, it's not strictly a male vs. female thing. It's more a priesthood quorum thing. You seem to fail to recognize some of the major strides that have been made in giving women more participation in church government. I know for a fact that, though the signatures are all men, leading women in the church were consulted for the Family Proclamation. Also note that the forum chosen to introduce the Proclamation was a general women's meeting. The roundtable during the Worldwide broadcast a few weeks ago feature 2 apostles, the presidents of the 2 women's organizations (RS and YW), and the female president of the Primary. Their opinions were clearly solicited and valued. One of the first things President Hinckley did was change the procedure for a solemn assembly which is held to sustain a new prophet. Formerly the process was to have the men stand each in turn by priesthood quorum/classification, then the church as a whole (including the women). He inserted two new groups: RS and YW. I'm trying to remember when the first General RS and General YW meetings were, and I don't think they existed much before his presidency, if at all. Does this mean we are not a priesthood-goverend church? No. For those who have ulterior motives in besmirching the church, they can always fall back on, "Yeah, but the REAL power is in the priesthood and the priesthood is held by men only." And you're right, under this system a women can never become a bishop, an apostle, or prophet. But to pretend that women are habitually taught to just bow down before the men around them is as uniformed as your previous statement. And if you've ever dealt with some of the stronger-willed women in the church (my mother among them), you'll realize how stupid a sentiment it really is. Men who understand the proper role of the priesthood per D&C 121 (and not all do), understand the proper role of women in the church, and the bounds on their authority. I could, but for lack of time, go over the parallels between priesthood and motherhood. But I'll save that for another discussion.
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"Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young Last edited by Tex; 02-27-2008 at 07:33 PM. |
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02-27-2008, 06:44 PM | #29 |
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Based on my observation over many many years, it is my opinion that without the Priesthood, men in the church would be completely run over by the women.
As a kid I was always baffled. Back in my day Patriarchal order was a big deal. Women did not pray in Sacrament meeting. I don't think they talked in conference. They definitely were to be subservient to the husband. Yet, in home after home I went to and hung out with friends, the mom ran the show. I tried to use my priesthood authority with my wife vs her mother. The result is she is my ex-wife. |
02-27-2008, 06:45 PM | #30 | |
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Bottom line: Tate ended up on his back; that his ankles went skyward speaks volumes and is the point at which this little analogy diverges from reality.
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Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith. |
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