Speaking as a liberal, I think McCain is a decent man

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MudphudCoug

OK. I respect McCain for serving in the military. I'm grateful to him for going to Vietnam to fight. I respect him for not going home when he had the chance. I don't respect him for fighting to prolong the Iraq War, and I won't call him a hero.

How did you go from being big Romney cheerleader to thinking McCain is the devil incarnate and Obama the messiah?

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Looking strictly at someone's military service, what would make that person a hero for you? What exactly is your threshold?

More specifically, given the circumstances under which McCain served and fought, is there anything about that service that we should not honor?

I'd say putting one's own life at significant risk to save someone else's life. Maybe he did that and I'm wrong.

The Vietnamese man who saved and protected McCain was a hero. According to this article, McCain neglected the man. But maybe the article is a load of crap?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...aved-life.html

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

How did you go from being big Romney cheerleader to thinking McCain is the devil incarnate and Obama the messiah?

I had a chance to vote for Romney, and I voted for Obama. I wanted Romney to win the Republican nomination for personal reasons, but I didn't vote for him.

Fine, I concede. McCain is a hero (sort of).

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by MudphudCoug

I'd say putting one's own life at significant risk to save someone else's life. Maybe he did that and I'm wrong.

The Vietnamese man who saved and protected McCain was a hero. According to this article, McCain neglected the man. But maybe the article is a load of crap?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...aved-life.html

You are nitpicking. He put his life at significant risk when he strapped himself into the plane.

As for the story, maybe McCain is silent because he remembers things differently and doesn't want to embarrass the man or his family. From the article:

Indeed, claiming to have saved McCain had by then become something of a cottage industry in Hanoi.

...

The story was also confirmed by the Vietnamese government.

Yes, the same Vietnamese government that claims that no torture took place at the Hanoi Hilton. When McCain visited in 1996, they had photos of happy prisoners and captions explaining how wonderfully they were treated. To his hosts' horror, McCain became angry and told the press that the tour was full of lies and misinformation.

This line of attack on McCain will get you nowhere, my friend.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

You are nitpicking. He put his life at significant risk when he strapped himself into the plane.

As for the story, maybe McCain is silent because he remembers things differently and doesn't want to embarrass the man or his family.

Good point JL. You and I were young when these men came home. Many were broken beyond their ability to endure. I suspect for every McCain, there is another that couldn't advance beyond the mental and physical torture. A POW came home to our community with severe mental problems. Not the heroic image that was being painted, and quite the shock for a young kid at the time. That McCain endured this all and went on to achieve what he did is an amazing feat. That he has moved beyond and seemingly forgiven those that treated him so horribly is even more amazing.

[Colly Wolly]

Romney was the ideal candidate.

[Ma'ake]

McCain is an American hero. I won't dispute that.

John Glenn is also an American hero. I would think many conservatives would vigorously assert that wouldn't make him qualified to be President.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

John Glenn is also an American hero. I would think many conservatives would vigorously assert that wouldn't make him qualified to be President.

But that's an entirely different argument. SoonerMudphud is trying to argue that McCain isn't a hero in the first place.

[Ma'ake]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

But that's an entirely different argument. SoonerMudphud is trying to argue that McCain isn't a hero in the first place.

Just turning the argument around a little... You're not suggesting changing topics is verbotten here, are you?

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I mean, literally, like a lot of liberals, Mudphud's income comes from government largess

Oh, Seattle, back off. MudPhud coulda been finished with his MD and already gone into plastics by now and be making a fortune. But he's adding a PhD to do research and he'll be in school forever and he in the meantime he hardly makes anything. And even when he finishes, with the cuts into the NSF he'll be lucky to get grants at all. So can it.