Justice Prevails - Jeffs Found Guilty

[Chapel-Hill-Coug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Methinks the men doth protest too much.

Some guys are just jealous they don't get their way. Personally I've never been turned on by a 14 year old, except when I was 14. But I've never been turned on by a 44 year old either.

Or maybe we really give a darn about a poor, young teenage girl and what she has to go through. Anyone who has daughters would be glad to see the guilty verdict. For me it isn't really even about the polygamy.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Chapel-Hill-Coug

Or maybe we really give a darn about a poor, young teenage girl and what she has to go through. Anyone who has daughters would be glad to see the guilty verdict. For me it isn't really even about the polygamy.

that's you putting your culture on them. In many places in the world, and in history, 14 years old is not verboten.

[Chapel-Hill-Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

that's you putting your culture on them. In many places in the world, and in history, 14 years old is not verboten.

That's a common myth perpetuated by apologists (at least in terms of 19th century america). Underage marriage then was no more common then than it is now. In fact, iirc, the average age of menarche for girls was around 14 or 15 back then, and 12 or 13 now.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Chapel-Hill-Coug

That's a common myth perpetuated by apologists (at least in terms of 19th century america). Underage marriage then was no more common then than it is now. In fact, iirc, the average age of menarche for girls was around 14 or 15 back then, and 12 or 13 now.

it's a common myth that there have been many cultures in history where underage marriage was common?

are you really willing to say that?

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Chapel-Hill-Coug

Or maybe we really give a darn about a poor, young teenage girl and what she has to go through. Anyone who has daughters would be glad to see the guilty verdict. For me it isn't really even about the polygamy.

Amen. The polygamy was secondary to the sexual abuse.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Amen. The polygamy was secondary to the sexual abuse.

what sexual abuse? who was the abuser and what punishment does he face?

[Chapel-Hill-Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

it's a common myth that there have been many cultures in history where underage marriage was common?

are you really willing to say that?

Read it again Mike. I clearly put it in terms of 19th century America. Are you forgetting the lengths to which JS went to keep these unions secret? People of his time who found out WERE repulsed, and we don't even know the % of young girls who actually rejected his advances (I think we know of a few though).

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Chapel-Hill-Coug

Read it again Mike. I clearly put it in terms of 19th century America. Are you forgetting the lengths to which JS went to keep these unions secret? People of his time who found out WERE repulsed, and we don't even know the % of young girls who actually rejected his advances (I think we know of a few though).

Right. For the record, I wasn't rationalizing sex with a 14 year old. I'm just puzzled that Mormons are so repulsed by what Jeffs has done but turn a blind eye to what their forebears did. They did the same thing. At least Mike is being consistent.

There are similar misconceptions about polygamy. People claim polygamy has been a constant in world history. Yes it has in a sense, but among singularly backward people. The Greeks and Romans didn't practice it. Christianity abolished it among the barbarian tribes. Augustine wrote against it, duly noting its practice among the Hebrews. Presently it is most prominently practiced among Orthodox Mormons and Muslim fundamentalists.

[Chapel-Hill-Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

what sexual abuse? who was the abuser and what punishment does he face?

Jeffs may not have perpetuated the abuse *in this case*, but c'mon. It is practically akin to two young trusting kids who are placed in front of a video camera by a sicko pervert. Of course the man behind the camera (so to speak) is guilty and ought to be punished, because in their world, the kids must do what the adult says.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

what sexual abuse? who was the abuser and what punishment does he face?

Ultimately those who condoned, encouraged, threatened, manipulated and facilitated the abuse are guilty. Certainly Jeffs is one of several - what about the girl's parents?