Addiction, Divorce and The Church... - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

jay santos · 08-11-2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rod248

So my quick question for the day.. ( I will spend today and most of the weekend going over this.. )

Will the spouse of the addict be looked down upon (in all of its forms..) for deceiding to divorce even though the addict is 'recovering' (meaning the addict is not using, going to a meeting here and there, working with a therapist now and then).

- Rod

Rod, good luck. You're in a terribly difficult situation. You sound sincere in wanting to do what's right. I believe you will know in your heart what you should do.

Probably the biggest factor for me would be do you have kids? If so, what age? If they are under age 18, then I would strongly consider toughing out the marriage until they are. But that's my opinion for me and I really have no ability to judge what you should do.

I also would put very little weight into being "looked down upon". Anyone other then God, your spouse, and your kids should have no bearing.

MikeWaters · 08-11-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rod248

So my quick question for the day.. ( I will spend today and most of the weekend going over this.. )

Will the spouse of the addict be looked down upon (in all of its forms..) for deceiding to divorce even though the addict is 'recovering' (meaning the addict is not using, going to a meeting here and there, working with a therapist now and then).

- Rod

By whom? There are always all sorts of opinions when it comes to a divorce. Some will think you are a lout, some will think you did the right thing.

I wouldn't base my decision on what other people think.

For those that have said there is a difference between legal and illegal substance addiction....I disagree that legal is necessarily less destructive than illegal. Speak to family members of alcoholics. Kids of alcoholics often have particular issues that creep up in their lives, even if they never touch alcohol themselves. Go to an open AA meeting. Go to a Al-Anon meeting.

Addiction is destroying lives all the time, "Mormon prism" or not. Probably my most rewarding experiences in psychiatry have been witnessing and helping people heal from their addictions. It is one of the few areas in psychiatry (in my experience) where someone go from gutter to normal.

I have a friend that divorced his wife. Big shock to all of us. He cited her alcoholism, depression, and cheating. He had put up with it for a long time, never telling us about it. Looking back there were signs. Her getting wasted during get-togethers. Asking them what they did last weekend, "stayed in and drank." In his case, he decided he had to break free, and seems happier now.

A friend of mine once told me that someone who suddenly starts experimenting with drugs while in his 30's, married and with children, probably has serious issues. Certainly my radar would be up, and divorce would be a consideration, if I were the spouse in that situation. The chances of my child being drug-free go way down when one of the parents is a user.

I don't know what the right answer is for you rod. Good luck.

MikeWaters · 08-11-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

Probably the biggest factor for me would be do you have kids? If so, what age? If they are under age 18, then I would strongly consider toughing out the marriage until they are. But that's my opinion for me and I really have no ability to judge what you should do.

Alternatively, it might be important to get the kids out from under her wing. I would think that with a good lawyer, you could get custody. I might be *more willing* to divorce if kids were involved, and things were going very poorly. If I couldn't get custody, then the equation becomes much more difficult.

rod248 · 08-11-2006, 02:53 PM

My kids are 16 and 10 years old. They both know of her troubles. My daughter has witnessed my wife get arrested..

I asked my wife to leave a couple months ago (she went to her parents home in Phoenix) as a 'last ditch effort' to get her to clean up. My kids knew why she was gone for the 2 months and they were fine with it. They know that we are not doing well. I really don't think they would be devastated if I filed.

I'm just tired of all that goes with the addiction. I don't want to fall back into feeling good only to have a relapse in a month or two...

- Rod

MikeWaters · 08-11-2006, 03:17 PM

I think what you are articulating Rod, is that it is very difficult to experience the rug being pulled out time after time. Things get better, everyone's hopes get up, and then relapse.

I am guessing that if she could really pull it off, and have sustained sobriety, and the marriage was intact, you would be very happy. There would be true joy in that.

Plenty of people who can claim 20 year sobriety. From where you are, that may seem impossible. But I assure you people can get better.

OTOH, some people do not get better.

Some people have to really bottom out to truly find the inner reserves to beat the addiction. Getting kicked out of the home, no where to go, facing divorce. I saw one of those guys. Living in his car, shooting up heroin. Hustling on the streets. he had burned so many bridges, the doctors at the VA wouldn't even let him to detox. Being new to the system, and naive, I decided to work with him. We came up with a plan whereby he would cut back and detox himself. I met with him frequently, and we got him into rehab (which required detox prior to admission). he got into a work program, and became a changed man. This was after numerous detoxes, treatments, doctors, etc. I marveled as he told me about his life, months later. He had come to my office like a beat-down dog the first day. And now, here was a confident man, who had earned back the trust of his family. And was doing the right things, and was learning though NA/AA about himself and his addiction. Very rewarding.

RockyBalboa · 08-11-2006, 03:30 PM

Rod, as hard as it is, but try not to worry too much about what others might think and of being looked down upon.

One thing after my separation and subsequent divorce, wherever I went, especially back to church, I had this thought process that people were going to look at me and think, "what's his problem"?

You tend to think that you'll be looked down and frowned upon because of divorce and thinking you'll face the "I told you so types".

There is a scene in "The Singles Ward" where the main character articulated the first time he walked into church after his divorce. He felt like he had a "Recall" stamp on his forehead and that everyone was staring at him. I felt the same way, but only at first.

I relayed this concern to one of my brothers-in-law and he had an excellent point and one which I eventually discovered to be the truth.

He said. "You think that people are staring at you or thinking, what is wrong with this guy, when in reality most people are wishing they could help and feel your pain, because they understand the pains of a broken marriage and wish they could be there for you"

I found out that my family and my REAL friends were the ones who supported me unconditionally. I supported a wife with many problems for a few years and thought I would be viewed as a bad guy for finally deciding to end things.

In time it turned out to be one of the best, albeit painful decisions I ever made. Hope that made sense. Ultimately you have to do what feels right and is the best direction for you and your kids. I know it's terribly difficult, but try not to burden yourself of thoughts of "what will others think", cause I found out that people are a lot more caring than I expected.

SeattleUte · 08-11-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rod248

Just curious to get ideas and thoughts from you guys...

What is your thought on a spouse that is an addict (alcohol, painkillers, meth, whatever..and all that goes with being an addict.. lying, stealing, legal probs, etc..) and how that may impact a decision for divorce.

Factoring into your decision, the teachings of The Church and any Temple covenants.

Can a person feel love and support from The Church and divorce the spouse all at the same time?

URGENT: She needs to cut her losses or odds are great life will only get worse. These problems rarely if ever improve; they almost always get much worse. I've seen this problem before. In the two instances closest to me (one was my cousin, and the other a kid I grew up with), the marriage drifted in equisite pain for years and years, there were a number of offspring in each instance, and the addict wound up killing himself, and leaving no life insurance and a wife unprepared to support the family.

I presume she could expect love and support from her church if she left him. A Church that can't give love and support to someone in such a predicament, particularly someone who takes dramatic action to extricate herself from it, isn't worth associating herself with.

SeattleUte · 08-11-2006, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

URGENT: She needs to cut her losses or odds are great life will only get worse. These problems rarely if ever improve; they almost always get much worse. I've seen this problem before. In the two instances closest to me (one was my cousin, and the other a kid I grew up with), the marriage drifted in equisite pain for years and years, there were a number of offspring in each instance, and the addict wound up killing himself, and leaving no life insurance and a wife unprepared to support the family.

I presume she could expect love and support from her church if she left him. A Church that can't give love and support to someone in such a predicament, particularly someone who takes dramatic action to extricate herself from it, isn't worth associating herself with.

If Rod is a guy my advice is no different.

SeattleUte · 08-11-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

What if the nonsinning partner is the only chance the other partner would ever have of salvation? Would you feel awful, if you were the person who quit one day, one week, one month or one year too early, just to preserve your own chance at happiness?

Everyone is accountable for their own salvation and happiness. This is bad advice. Go make yourself happy; make someone else happy too; someone who deserves it.

jay santos · 08-11-2006, 04:22 PM

[QUOTE=SeattleUte]Everyone is accountable for their own salvation[QUOTE]

I thought you were into science?

08-11-2006, 03:30 PM	#16
RockyBalboa Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 7,297	Rod, as hard as it is, but try not to worry too much about what others might think and of being looked down upon. One thing after my separation and subsequent divorce, wherever I went, especially back to church, I had this thought process that people were going to look at me and think, "what's his problem"? You tend to think that you'll be looked down and frowned upon because of divorce and thinking you'll face the "I told you so types". There is a scene in "The Singles Ward" where the main character articulated the first time he walked into church after his divorce. He felt like he had a "Recall" stamp on his forehead and that everyone was staring at him. I felt the same way, but only at first. I relayed this concern to one of my brothers-in-law and he had an excellent point and one which I eventually discovered to be the truth. He said. "You think that people are staring at you or thinking, what is wrong with this guy, when in reality most people are wishing they could help and feel your pain, because they understand the pains of a broken marriage and wish they could be there for you" I found out that my family and my REAL friends were the ones who supported me unconditionally. I supported a wife with many problems for a few years and thought I would be viewed as a bad guy for finally deciding to end things. In time it turned out to be one of the best, albeit painful decisions I ever made. Hope that made sense. Ultimately you have to do what feels right and is the best direction for you and your kids. I know it's terribly difficult, but try not to burden yourself of thoughts of "what will others think", cause I found out that people are a lot more caring than I expected. __________________ Masquerading as Cougarguards very own genius dumbass since 05'.

08-11-2006, 02:53 PM	#14
rod248 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Provo, Ut Posts: 7	My kids are 16 and 10 years old. They both know of her troubles. My daughter has witnessed my wife get arrested.. I asked my wife to leave a couple months ago (she went to her parents home in Phoenix) as a 'last ditch effort' to get her to clean up. My kids knew why she was gone for the 2 months and they were fine with it. They know that we are not doing well. I really don't think they would be devastated if I filed. I'm just tired of all that goes with the addiction. I don't want to fall back into feeling good only to have a relapse in a month or two... - Rod

08-11-2006, 03:17 PM	#15
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I think what you are articulating Rod, is that it is very difficult to experience the rug being pulled out time after time. Things get better, everyone's hopes get up, and then relapse. I am guessing that if she could really pull it off, and have sustained sobriety, and the marriage was intact, you would be very happy. There would be true joy in that. Plenty of people who can claim 20 year sobriety. From where you are, that may seem impossible. But I assure you people can get better. OTOH, some people do not get better. Some people have to really bottom out to truly find the inner reserves to beat the addiction. Getting kicked out of the home, no where to go, facing divorce. I saw one of those guys. Living in his car, shooting up heroin. Hustling on the streets. he had burned so many bridges, the doctors at the VA wouldn't even let him to detox. Being new to the system, and naive, I decided to work with him. We came up with a plan whereby he would cut back and detox himself. I met with him frequently, and we got him into rehab (which required detox prior to admission). he got into a work program, and became a changed man. This was after numerous detoxes, treatments, doctors, etc. I marveled as he told me about his life, months later. He had come to my office like a beat-down dog the first day. And now, here was a confident man, who had earned back the trust of his family. And was doing the right things, and was learning though NA/AA about himself and his addiction. Very rewarding.

08-11-2006, 04:22 PM	#20
jay santos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,177	[QUOTE=SeattleUte]Everyone is accountable for their own salvation[QUOTE] I thought you were into science?