BYU finishes 14 in both the AP and the coaches poll

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I was referring to the fact you and Indy would agree BYU would get manhandled.

I have always said Crowton had a set of bad circumstances. A lot of it was a result of him not knowing what he was getting into, Bronco did.

Crowton probably thought his most important interview was with the AD and school President. He didn't realize his ability to bear his testimony was the most important part of the interview. It went downhill from there.

Bronco wouldn't be as good of a coach as he is now if he hadn't been here to witness 2003 and 2004.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Where is that "poll" released other than the WashPost blog?

Thanks in advance.

You can get it through the Las Vegas Sports Consultants webpage as well, or by just going to a neat new website called "google". Your welcome in advance.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Bronco has firmly demonstrated that he can take a talented group of players, which he largely inherited, and get a consistently high level of productivity out of them.

Bronco has firmly demonstrated that he has a firm grasp on player relations, admin relations, alumni relations, all to an nth level higher than Crowton.

Bronco has firmly demonstrated that he can get a high level of production out of marginal players, like the 4 walk-ons that started in the secondary this year and yet produced a top 10 or 15 defense.

It tentatively appears that Bronco is adept at identifying quality D-1 talent that will fit in at BYU and still meet BYU's competitive needs. This, IMO, is the biggest remaining unknown about Bronco. However, 2008 and 2009 will largely answer those questions.

IMO, there isn't one other person out there that is as uniquely qualified to lead BYU's football program as Bronco is right now. I pray to all that is holy that when Bronco hangs up the clipboard or perchance ventures to greener pastures that someone else has been sufficiently prepared to fill that gigantic void.

I see you write scripture like that and I am forced to wonder how you could have been so damn dumb when Crowton was demonstrating he was so far in over his head?

I am not going to extremes here. I did not expect 2003 to win 8 or 9 games. However, it was so obvious to me that BYU was a rudderless mess by the middle of 2003. The players did not believe in Crowton, the play on the field was remarkably inconsistent, the program was soft and without pride and Crowton's answer was to take over more responsibilities himself. This is not to say that BYU did not have other issues as they did and still do. This is to point out that if all things at BYU were great the football team would still be wickedly inconsistent and struggle more frequently than it should have because it was led by a HC that was obviously in over his head.

Regardless, I do like the new you born again hard and whatnot. You think far more clearly. I would like to think I had some influence on this metamorphisis.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Bronco wouldn't be as good of a coach as he is now if he hadn't been here to witness 2003 and 2004.

I can agree with this. However, IMO his ability to both learn from mistakes and anticipate future issues appears far more advanced than Crowton's. While Crowton didn't have the insight into the uniqueness of BYU that Mendenhall was blessed with, he had been a HC before coming to BYU so he had professional preparation that Mendenhall was without.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I was referring to the fact you and Indy would agree BYU would get manhandled.

I have always said Crowton had a set of bad circumstances. A lot of it was a result of him not knowing what he was getting into, Bronco did.

Crowton probably thought his most important interview was with the AD and school President. He didn't realize his ability to bear his testimony was the most important part of the interview. It went downhill from there.

An offense based upon playmaking wideouts, that features wide receiver slip screens with the goal to get the ball in the hands of playmakers in space, is not a good matchup for BYU. IMO look at the type of systems Bronco puts in place, they rely upon and utilize what BYU can historically recruit, and perhaps more importantly, keep in school.

Crowton did not seem to understand how to make BYU successful. It looked to me like he was trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Indy is often an idiot when it comes to things. This is accepted as universal truth now.

However, I have actually bought a small part of Indy's argument that Crowton had a uniquely bad set of things occur that screwed him. Whereas the opposite can be argued as having occurred to Bronco.

So while I still don't think Crowton was a good general, I have bought two-pence worth of Indy's arguments.

You can't just look at W-L record, you have to look at W-L compared to expectations.

Crowton going into the 2002 season, probably should have gone something like 20-15 over the next three seasons. That's still the worst three year period in the prior 30 years, but tolerable in a rebuilding period with extenuating circumstances. Instead of 20-15, he went 14-21.

Bronco going into the 2005 season, probably should have gone something like 26-12 over the next three season. He went 28-10.

So during that comparison period, Bronco is not better than Crowton by 28-10 vs 14-21 or about 14 games. He's better than Crowton by +2 vs -6, or about 8 games. OK, he's still a helluva lot better than Crowton.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Bronco has firmly demonstrated that he can take a talented group of players, which he largely inherited, and get a consistently high level of productivity out of them.

Bronco has firmly demonstrated that he has a firm grasp on player relations, admin relations, alumni relations, all to an nth level higher than Crowton.

Bronco has firmly demonstrated that he can get a high level of production out of marginal players, like the 4 walk-ons that started in the secondary this year and yet produced a top 10 or 15 defense.

It tentatively appears that Bronco is adept at identifying quality D-1 talent that will fit in at BYU and still meet BYU's competitive needs. This, IMO, is the biggest remaining unknown about Bronco. However, 2008 and 2009 will largely answer those questions.

IMO, there isn't one other person out there that is as uniquely qualified to lead BYU's football program as Bronco is right now. I pray to all that is holy that when Bronco hangs up the clipboard or perchance ventures to greener pastures that someone else has been sufficiently prepared to fill that gigantic void.

I agree with you here. I can't think of anyone else in the pipeline that would probably get as excited with the spiritual side of the coaching assignment.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

I see you write scripture like that and I am forced to wonder how you could have been so damn dumb when Crowton was demonstrating he was so far in over his head?

I am not going to extremes here. I did not expect 2003 to win 8 or 9 games. However, it was so obvious to me that BYU was a rudderless mess by the middle of 2003. The players did not believe in Crowton, the play on the field was remarkably inconsistent, the program was soft and without pride and Crowton's answer was to take over more responsibilities himself. This is not to say that BYU did not have other issues as they did and still do. This is to point out that if all things at BYU were great the football team would still be wickedly inconsistent and struggle more frequently than it should have because it was led by a HC that was obviously in over his head.

Regardless, I do like the new you born again hard and whatnot. You think far more clearly. I would like to think I had some influence on this metamorphisis.

The arguments centered around specific arguments made ostensibly to prove Crowton was a bad head coach. Bad arguments are bad arguments (like bad coaching leads to indecisiveness which leads to more injuries), even if the conclusion may approach being accurate (even if a huge amount of hyperbole got thrown in).

I thought Crowton was an average head coach, people here thought he was worse than Gomer Pyle heading up NASA research. It wasn't that I thought he was the best coach, it's just that the difference in severity of our opinions seemed to give you the impression that I did.

BYU is too tough of a place to coach if you're only average. However, how many superior head coaches are out there that will fit at BYU? Divine intervention, I tells ya.

[UteStar]

Utah finished ranked #32 and #38! All my dreams came true this year.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

An offense based upon playmaking wideouts, that features wide receiver slip screens with the goal to get the ball in the hands of playmakers in space, is not a good matchup for BYU. IMO look at the type of systems Bronco puts in place, they rely upon and utilize what BYU can historically recruit, and perhaps more importantly, keep in school.

Crowton did not seem to understand how to make BYU successful. It looked to me like he was trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

True, he thought he could recruit to what he wanted to do, he couldn't. Bronco started to make the same mistake, but was smart enough to switch out of the 3-3-5.

While Bronco seems like a my way or the highway guy in the press, in reality if you watch what he does and not just what he says, the guy can adjust.