Question regarding antis and the Book of Mormon - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

BYUruss · 10-26-2007, 10:19 PM

I asked this on CB and didn't get any response. Has anyone seen an explanation from any anti-LDS group for the Book of Mormon that actually makes sense? Because I haven't. If the church isn't true, then someone had to have written the Book of Mormon, and everything it contains. The Spaulding theory does nothing for me.
Do antis think JS made it up? I know they had a hayday when the Pearl of Great Price scrolls were found and JS had translated it completely wrong, but I've heard nothing on the BOM.

MikeWaters · 10-26-2007, 10:22 PM

We have argued this with SeattleUte to some extent.

One of the strongest arguments, in my mind, is that when you read the BoM it seems to be among the least probable books a huckster would come up with. A murderous prophet in the first few chapters??? The BoM also always struck me as having unique voices.

The BoM is I think still an enigma, though there will be some that deny it is.

Sleeping in EQ · 10-26-2007, 10:34 PM

You are correct that the Spalding Theory is washed up. More people find the Ethan Smith "Views of the Hebrews" approach a bit more likely. Major anti positions include those two and:

1. He was inspired by Satan. Lot's of discussion of things like automatic writing and rocks in hats from those who use this approach.

2. He was a misguided religious genius who borrowed from his own life (there appears to be some truth to this as regarding the Tree of Life material in 1 Nephi), the King James Bible, and the issues of his day (such as anti-masonry, the lineage of the Native Americans, and so on). This position is plausible, but is hard to argue in specific.

3. Cowdery or Rigdon helped him with it (The Spalding theory tries to implicate Rigdon, but it's kind to call that theory Hogwash. Walter Martin, Don Scales, Wayne Cowdery, and Howard Davis were lambasted for advancing the Spalding theory in the early 80s. Even the Tanners called it folly. They hold to a hybrid of the Ethan Smith-religious genius view, as I recall). Regardless, the evidence for Cowdery or Rigdon helping JS is flimsy.

ChinoCoug · 10-26-2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

2. He was a misguided religious genius who borrowed from his own life (there appears to be some truth to this as regarding the Tree of Life material in 1 Nephi), the King James Bible, and the issues of his day (such as anti-masonry, the lineage of the Native Americans, and so on). This position is plausible, but is hard to argue in specific.

not that this has any positive or negative impact on the claims, but isn't the tree of life some universal motif?

MikeWaters · 10-26-2007, 10:41 PM

Can someone point me to a work of fiction that uses multiple first person vantage points? How hard is it to pull off? I can't think of any offhand myself.

Sleeping in EQ · 10-26-2007, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

not that this has any positive or negative impact on the claims, but isn't the tree of life some universal motif?

Yes it is. It was also in Father Smith's dreams.

MikeWaters · 10-26-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

"It" by Stephen King?

what is your opinion of it? Does he do a good job of it?

Certainly I think it can be done. I just think that it isn't easy.

Indy Coug · 10-26-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

what is your opinion of it? Does he do a good job of it?

Certainly I think it can be done. I just think that it isn't easy.

Actually, I don't think "It" is multiple first-person vantage points, but it's been 20 years. I still really enjoyed reading it.

All-American · 10-26-2007, 11:04 PM

The Shaara books (Killer Angels, Gods and Generals, The Last Full Measure, etc.) are 3rd person voice, 1st person perspective. They are actually fairly well written, but all of the characters started sounding the same after a while.

Solon · 10-26-2007, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Can someone point me to a work of fiction that uses multiple first person vantage points? How hard is it to pull off? I can't think of any offhand myself.

Dracula, by Stoker? I'm can't remember, exactly.

10-26-2007, 10:19 PM	#1
BYUruss Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 89	Question regarding antis and the Book of Mormon I asked this on CB and didn't get any response. Has anyone seen an explanation from any anti-LDS group for the Book of Mormon that actually makes sense? Because I haven't. If the church isn't true, then someone had to have written the Book of Mormon, and everything it contains. The Spaulding theory does nothing for me. Do antis think JS made it up? I know they had a hayday when the Pearl of Great Price scrolls were found and JS had translated it completely wrong, but I've heard nothing on the BOM.

10-26-2007, 10:34 PM	#3
Sleeping in EQ Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The People's Republic of Monsanto Posts: 3,085	You are correct that the Spalding Theory is washed up. More people find the Ethan Smith "Views of the Hebrews" approach a bit more likely. Major anti positions include those two and: 1. He was inspired by Satan. Lot's of discussion of things like automatic writing and rocks in hats from those who use this approach. 2. He was a misguided religious genius who borrowed from his own life (there appears to be some truth to this as regarding the Tree of Life material in 1 Nephi), the King James Bible, and the issues of his day (such as anti-masonry, the lineage of the Native Americans, and so on). This position is plausible, but is hard to argue in specific. 3. Cowdery or Rigdon helped him with it (The Spalding theory tries to implicate Rigdon, but it's kind to call that theory Hogwash. Walter Martin, Don Scales, Wayne Cowdery, and Howard Davis were lambasted for advancing the Spalding theory in the early 80s. Even the Tanners called it folly. They hold to a hybrid of the Ethan Smith-religious genius view, as I recall). Regardless, the evidence for Cowdery or Rigdon helping JS is flimsy. __________________ "Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies. Last edited by Sleeping in EQ; 10-26-2007 at 10:36 PM.

10-26-2007, 11:04 PM	#9
All-American Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,420	The Shaara books (Killer Angels, Gods and Generals, The Last Full Measure, etc.) are 3rd person voice, 1st person perspective. They are actually fairly well written, but all of the characters started sounding the same after a while. __________________ εν αρχη ην ο λογος

10-26-2007, 10:22 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	We have argued this with SeattleUte to some extent. One of the strongest arguments, in my mind, is that when you read the BoM it seems to be among the least probable books a huckster would come up with. A murderous prophet in the first few chapters??? The BoM also always struck me as having unique voices. The BoM is I think still an enigma, though there will be some that deny it is.

10-26-2007, 10:41 PM	#5
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Can someone point me to a work of fiction that uses multiple first person vantage points? How hard is it to pull off? I can't think of any offhand myself.