I am really alarmed about developments with Russia. - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Cali Coug · 08-15-2008, 04:37 PM

I can't believe how little attention the crisis in Georgia is receiving here in the US. Russia is clearly ignoring international demands for withdrawal as they continue to capture more and more Georgian territory. Russia is also making strong statements with respect to Ukraine, suggesting that Ukraine may be next on the invasion list. Ukraine controls a portion of the Black Sea, and Russia doesn't appear to like that fact. What happens if Russia's navy asserts Russian control over those waters?

And then there is this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/...issile_defense

Russia is making threats about invading Poland. Wow. What in the world would our response have to be to something like that? It would be tough to imagine anything other than a military response. Clearly we can't go back to a policy of appeasement, and we can't allow Russia to simply expand back to its Cold War borders.

Is Russia testing the waters for something like a return to its Cold War status? Dangerous times.

myboynoah · 08-15-2008, 05:46 PM

I read about it everyday, it's on the front page of the paper here and on the news.

Worrisome perhaps, but the Georgians did poked the Russians in the eye with a big stick. Ukraine is not Georgia, it's a huge chunk of land. I have serious doubts about Russia's military cability to sustain such an operation, especially in the face of armed opposition. The Poland statements appear to be blustering in the context of "should conflict break out, you Poles run the risk of getting nuked. Think about it before you get too close with the U.S. on missile defense."

Does Russia want to restore its hegemony over the region? Sure. Does it have the capability (militarily and politically) to do so? I would think only on the periphery, in places like Georgia.

MikeWaters · 08-15-2008, 05:54 PM

US has already shown that it is not willing to go to bat for an ally in the region.

Anyone that had been banking on US support ought to discard that notion immediately.

You are more likely to be BLAMED for the conflict than you are to be supported. Initially the Bush Administration blamed Georgia, just as MBN is doing now.

Cali Coug · 08-15-2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myboynoah

I read about it everyday, it's on the front page of the paper here and on the news.

Worrisome perhaps, but the Georgians did poked the Russians in the eye with a big stick. Ukraine is not Georgia, it's a huge chunk of land. I have serious doubts about Russia's military cability to sustain such an operation, especially in the face of armed opposition. The Poland statements appear to be blustering in the context of "should conflict break out, you Poles run the risk of getting nuked. Think about it before you get too close with the U.S. on missile defense."

Does Russia want to restore its hegemony over the region? Sure. Does it have the capability (militarily and politically) to do so? I would think only on the periphery, in places like Georgia.

I also question Russia's ability to establish control over the region once again. What worries me more is that they may believe they have that control, regardless of whether or not they actually do.

The Poland comments are strange given their timing. Otherwise, they would be chalked up as posturing (Russia has said similar things in the past).

BarbaraGordon · 08-15-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

US has already shown that it is not willing to go to bat for an ally in the region.

Anyone that had been banking on US support ought to discard that notion immediately.

This is what worries me. McCain keeps making threats and demands. But any ultimatum includes an inherent risk: you might actually have to back up your threats; or worse, someone might call your bluff. The way McCain is talking about this situation is making me nervous, not that Obama's said much to impress me regarding the subject.

exUte · 08-15-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

US has already shown that it is not willing to go to bat for an ally in the region.

Anyone that had been banking on US support ought to discard that notion immediately.

You are more likely to be BLAMED for the conflict than you are to be supported. Initially the Bush Administration blamed Georgia, just as MBN is doing now.

you would have the Democrats crapping their pants.

exUte · 08-15-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I can't believe how little attention the crisis in Georgia is receiving here in the US. Russia is clearly ignoring international demands for withdrawal as they continue to capture more and more Georgian territory. Russia is also making strong statements with respect to Ukraine, suggesting that Ukraine may be next on the invasion list. Ukraine controls a portion of the Black Sea, and Russia doesn't appear to like that fact. What happens if Russia's navy asserts Russian control over those waters?

And then there is this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/...issile_defense

Russia is making threats about invading Poland. Wow. What in the world would our response have to be to something like that? It would be tough to imagine anything other than a military response. Clearly we can't go back to a policy of appeasement, and we can't allow Russia to simply expand back to its Cold War borders.

Is Russia testing the waters for something like a return to its Cold War status? Dangerous times.

the UN/NATO will intervene big time. Which means they will ask us for our military since the rest of UN/NATO alliance has no teeth.

BarbaraGordon · 08-15-2008, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exUte

Which means they will ask us for our military since the rest of UN/NATO alliance has no teeth.

Yeah, but our teeth have already bitten off as much as they can chew.

Venkman · 08-15-2008, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exUte

the UN/NATO will intervene big time. Which means they will ask us for our military since the rest of UN/NATO alliance has no teeth.

NATO is weak right now. If Russia invaded Poland or Ukraine, we would not go to war (nor should we, IMO), and it would expose NATO for the joke it is. As much as my heart is with these countries, I do not support going to war to protect them. Expanding NATO into the old Soviet territory has been a mistake that has only antagonized the Russians.

BlueK · 08-15-2008, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venkman

NATO is weak right now. If Russia invaded Poland or Ukraine, we would not go to war (nor should we, IMO), and it would expose NATO for the joke it is. As much as my heart is with these countries, I do not support going to war to protect them. Expanding NATO into the old Soviet territory has been a mistake that has only antagonized the Russians.

I agree. Rather than being expanded, NATO should be disbanded. It's time for the Europeans to defend themselves. It's not like they can't afford it.

08-15-2008, 04:37 PM	#1
Cali Coug Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,996	I am really alarmed about developments with Russia. I can't believe how little attention the crisis in Georgia is receiving here in the US. Russia is clearly ignoring international demands for withdrawal as they continue to capture more and more Georgian territory. Russia is also making strong statements with respect to Ukraine, suggesting that Ukraine may be next on the invasion list. Ukraine controls a portion of the Black Sea, and Russia doesn't appear to like that fact. What happens if Russia's navy asserts Russian control over those waters? And then there is this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/...issile_defense Russia is making threats about invading Poland. Wow. What in the world would our response have to be to something like that? It would be tough to imagine anything other than a military response. Clearly we can't go back to a policy of appeasement, and we can't allow Russia to simply expand back to its Cold War borders. Is Russia testing the waters for something like a return to its Cold War status? Dangerous times.

08-15-2008, 05:46 PM	#2
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	I read about it everyday, it's on the front page of the paper here and on the news. Worrisome perhaps, but the Georgians did poked the Russians in the eye with a big stick. Ukraine is not Georgia, it's a huge chunk of land. I have serious doubts about Russia's military cability to sustain such an operation, especially in the face of armed opposition. The Poland statements appear to be blustering in the context of "should conflict break out, you Poles run the risk of getting nuked. Think about it before you get too close with the U.S. on missile defense." Does Russia want to restore its hegemony over the region? Sure. Does it have the capability (militarily and politically) to do so? I would think only on the periphery, in places like Georgia. __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

08-15-2008, 05:54 PM	#3
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	US has already shown that it is not willing to go to bat for an ally in the region. Anyone that had been banking on US support ought to discard that notion immediately. You are more likely to be BLAMED for the conflict than you are to be supported. Initially the Bush Administration blamed Georgia, just as MBN is doing now.