cougarobgon...

[scottie]

(Is he the only known current bishop amongst us?) assuming everything else in the interview checks off, would you sign the TRs of these two members?:

Member A
Bishop: Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow men?
Member A: Yes I think I'm honest, but I struggle with it from time to time. An example occurred two weeks ago when I lied to my neighbor after he asked me if it was me who turned him in to animal control for letting his dogs run loose sometimes; I told him it wasn't me who turned him in when it actually was me.

Member B
Bishop: Do you live the Word of Wisdom?
Member B: Yes I think I live the Word of Wisdom, but I struggle with it from time to time, an example occurred two weeks ago when I had a glass of wine with dinner.

See this poll/thread for more info:
http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21472

[TripletDaddy]

I took it from cougarobgon's post that he was no longer a Bishop, but at one time in the Bishopric and conducting interviews.

I took it from Indy's silly Moses analogy that he will never be a Bishop.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I took it from Indy's silly Moses analogy that he will never be a Bishop.

At least, that's the dream.

Frankly, there usually are a lot bigger fish to fry than lying about dogs and a little vino for those whose temple recommend status is actually in question.

[il Padrino Ute]

My question would be if member A cooked dinner for member B and if that dinner was actually the dog?

What kind of wine would be served with dog? Podoju?

[cougarobgon]

Originally Posted by scottie

(Is he the only known current bishop amongst us?) assuming everything else in the interview checks off, would you sign the TRs of these two members?:

Member A
Bishop: Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow men?
Member A: Yes I think I'm honest, but I struggle with it from time to time. An example occurred two weeks ago when I lied to my neighbor after he asked me if it was me who turned him in to animal control for letting his dogs run loose sometimes; I told him it wasn't me who turned him in when it actually was me.

Member B
Bishop: Do you live the Word of Wisdom?
Member B: Yes I think I live the Word of Wisdom, but I struggle with it from time to time, an example occurred two weeks ago when I had a glass of wine with dinner.

See this poll/thread for more info:
http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21472

Scottie, I am no longer a bishop I did my time for six years. I was released a little over 9 years ago. I served in a ward with membership in excess of 600 people with about only 100 temple recommend holders. If my recollection is correct, we had approximately 200 endowed members. I don't know if the 50/50 ratio temple recommend holders vs. endowed non recommend holders is typical through out the Church. Having said that, I conducted many temple recommend interviews and during those times I learned that there are many reasons why individuals want to hold a current recommend.

1. Some want to have a recommend to be ready to attend a temple session scheduled by the Lord upon his return.

2. Some want it so that they can enter the temple to be sealed to their fiance with no intent of ever returning.

3. There are those driven by their desire to save their ancestors.

4. There are those that although they live a life that would qualify them for temple attendance, they have no desire to attend but they need the recommend to not disappoint family.

5. Some are the "special occasion" type recommend holders, ie, they want to go to the temple due to a wedding, son going on a mission, etc...they come in, ask how long they have to keep the wow or how long of a period do they need to pay tithing to qualify.

6. There are those who struggled in life, disqualified themselves and after years of struggling, repented and wanted to return to the temple to again remember the the covenants and promises they had made.

7. And then there are those who understand the covenants they made, are not perfect, make mistakes and then repent...they understand the covenants and strive to keep the promises they have made. These people return to the temple as often at they are able.

Now to answer your question, the young (32 y/o) cougarobgon bishop, without hesitation would have answered YES to Member A and NO to Member B. I did not ask for the calling, yet I accepted it along with all my shortcomings. I was very judgmental and could not understand how an endowed member could break the wow, not attend Church every Sunday, etc...and my intent was to preside with an "Iron Fist". But, then something happened, as I began to get to know each member of my ward, I began to see beyond those outwardly measurements and began to address each issue on its own merits...If were a bishop now, Would I say YES to Member A? I believe so. Would I say NO to Member B? Not without hesitating and seeking clarification about the underlying circumstances that lead the member to willfully break the wow. If the "occasionally" means that Member B drinks wine every couple of weeks, I would probably say NO at that interview and invite Member B to come back in a few weeks to see how he is doing. Would I say Yes? Probably, it just depends on the Member B's attitude and the circumstances that lead him to break the wow.

To me a major component of the decisions I made was the attitude of the member. I recall one morning receiving a tel call from the MTC, on the other line was a branch president calling to tell me that he had just interviewed a young man that had recently left our ward to enter the mission field and that he needed to speak with me. I did not enjoy getting tel calls of this nature, but attempts to locate the SP were not successful. They were calling me to make a decision as to whether or not the young man needed to come home. As I heard the young man provide details about a sin committed after receiving his first temple recommend, it was clear that had he confessed his sin prior to obtaining his endowment, I would have taken his temple recommend. But, the thought of bringing him home never crossed my mind while I spoke with him that morning, because of his repentant attitude. He truly understood the power of repentance and the miracle of forgiveness...it was a great experience for both of us. He went on to serve a faithful and honorable mission, married in the temple, and is a faithful member of the Church.

The attitude of Member A and Member B would definitively influence my decision.

-Cougarobgon

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by cougarobgon

Scottie, I am no longer a bishop I did my time for six years. I was released a little over 9 years ago. I served in a ward with membership in excess of 600 people with about only 100 temple recommend holders. If my recollection is correct, we had approximately 200 endowed members. I don't know if the 50/50 ratio temple recommend holders vs. endowed non recommend holders is typical through out the Church. Having said that, I conducted many temple recommend interviews and during those times I learned that there are many reasons why individuals want to hold a current recommend.

1. Some want to have a recommend to be ready to attend a temple session scheduled by the Lord upon his return.

2. Some want it so that they can enter the temple to be sealed to their fiance with no intent of ever returning.

3. There are those driven by their desire to save their ancestors.

4. There are those that although they live a life that would qualify them for temple attendance, they have no desire to attend but they need the recommend to not disappoint family.

5. Some are the "special occasion" type recommend holders, ie, they want to go to the temple due to a wedding, son going on a mission, etc...they come in, ask how long they have to keep the wow or how long of a period do they need to pay tithing to qualify.

6. There are those who struggled in life, disqualified themselves and after years of struggling, repented and wanted to return to the temple to again remember the the covenants and promises they had made.

7. And then there are those who understand the covenants they made, are not perfect, make mistakes and then repent...they understand the covenants and strive to keep the promises they have made. These people return to the temple as often at they are able.

Now to answer your question, the young (32 y/o) cougarobgon bishop, without hesitation would have answered YES to Member A and NO to Member B. I did not ask for the calling, yet I accepted it along with all my shortcomings. I was very judgmental and could not understand how an endowed member could break the wow, not attend Church every Sunday, etc...and my intent was to preside with an "Iron Fist". But, then something happened, as I began to get to know each member of my ward, I began to see beyond those outwardly measurements and began to address each issue on its own merits...If were a bishop now, Would I say YES to Member A? I believe so. Would I say NO to Member B? Not without hesitating and seeking clarification about the underlying circumstances that lead the member to willfully break the wow. If the "occasionally" means that Member B drinks wine every couple of weeks, I would probably say NO at that interview and invite Member B to come back in a few weeks to see how he is doing. Would I say Yes? Probably, it just depends on the Member B's attitude and the circumstances that lead him to break the wow.

To me a major component of the decisions I made was the attitude of the member. I recall one morning receiving a tel call from the MTC, on the other line was a branch president calling to tell me that he had just interviewed a young man that had recently left our ward to enter the mission field and that he needed to speak with me. I did not enjoy getting tel calls of this nature, but attempts to locate the SP were not successful. They were calling me to make a decision as to whether or not the young man needed to come home. As I heard the young man provide details about a sin committed after receiving his first temple recommend, it was clear that had he confessed his sin prior to obtaining his endowment, I would have taken his temple recommend. But, the thought of bringing him home never crossed my mind while I spoke with him that morning, because of his repentant attitude. He truly understood the power of repentance and the miracle of forgiveness...it was a great experience for both of us. He went on to serve a faithful and honorable mission, married in the temple, and is a faithful member of the Church.

The attitude of Member A and Member B would definitively influence my decision.

-Cougarobgon

Not that these stories are the same, but it did remind me of something a relative told me once. This relative has been a Bishop, SP, Mission President and in the mission Presidency.

He told me once when he was a SP he was awoken in the middle of the night. It was a Mission President of one of the young men in his Stake. The young man hadn't committed any serious sin, but this President was less than enthused with his work eithic and his committment. The mission President went on and on about my relative sending out ill prepared missionaries.

I asked him what he did. He said, "I listened and hung up the phone. Then I said to my wife, that guy (the MP) was a real jackass.

I only bring this up to point out even the "elect" in the church may not see eye to eye.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Not that these stories are the same, but it did remind me of something a relative told me once. This relative has been a Bishop, SP, Mission President and in the mission Presidency.

He told me once when he was a SP he was awoken in the middle of the night. It was a Mission President of one of the young men in his Stake. The young man hadn't committed any serious sin, but this President was less than enthused with his work eithic and his committment. The mission President went on and on about my relative sending out ill prepared missionaries.

I asked him what he did. He said, "I listened and hung up the phone. Then I said to my wife, that guy (the MP) was a real jackass.

I only bring this up to point out even the "elect" in the church may not see eye to eye.

the MP before mine was a real pecker. but he did apparently motivate the missionaries, even if it was basically Satan's plan (forced obedience).

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

the MP before mine was a real pecker. but he did apparently motivate the missionaries, even if it was basically Satan's plan (forced obedience).

I've noticed it's a tradition for the new MP to totally trash the old one. I've seen this happen too often to be coincidence. And considering the kids are all pretty much brainwashed, it's easy to do.

[scottie]

Originally Posted by cougarobgon

Scottie, I am no longer a bishop I did my time for six years. I was released a little over 9 years ago. I served in a ward with membership in excess of 600 people with about only 100 temple recommend holders. If my recollection is correct, we had approximately 200 endowed members. I don't know if the 50/50 ratio temple recommend holders vs. endowed non recommend holders is typical through out the Church. Having said that, I conducted many temple recommend interviews and during those times I learned that there are many reasons why individuals want to hold a current recommend.

1. Some want to have a recommend to be ready to attend a temple session scheduled by the Lord upon his return.

2. Some want it so that they can enter the temple to be sealed to their fiance with no intent of ever returning.

3. There are those driven by their desire to save their ancestors.

4. There are those that although they live a life that would qualify them for temple attendance, they have no desire to attend but they need the recommend to not disappoint family.

5. Some are the "special occasion" type recommend holders, ie, they want to go to the temple due to a wedding, son going on a mission, etc...they come in, ask how long they have to keep the wow or how long of a period do they need to pay tithing to qualify.

6. There are those who struggled in life, disqualified themselves and after years of struggling, repented and wanted to return to the temple to again remember the the covenants and promises they had made.

7. And then there are those who understand the covenants they made, are not perfect, make mistakes and then repent...they understand the covenants and strive to keep the promises they have made. These people return to the temple as often at they are able.

Now to answer your question, the young (32 y/o) cougarobgon bishop, without hesitation would have answered YES to Member A and NO to Member B. I did not ask for the calling, yet I accepted it along with all my shortcomings. I was very judgmental and could not understand how an endowed member could break the wow, not attend Church every Sunday, etc...and my intent was to preside with an "Iron Fist". But, then something happened, as I began to get to know each member of my ward, I began to see beyond those outwardly measurements and began to address each issue on its own merits...If were a bishop now, Would I say YES to Member A? I believe so. Would I say NO to Member B? Not without hesitating and seeking clarification about the underlying circumstances that lead the member to willfully break the wow. If the "occasionally" means that Member B drinks wine every couple of weeks, I would probably say NO at that interview and invite Member B to come back in a few weeks to see how he is doing. Would I say Yes? Probably, it just depends on the Member B's attitude and the circumstances that lead him to break the wow.

To me a major component of the decisions I made was the attitude of the member. I recall one morning receiving a tel call from the MTC, on the other line was a branch president calling to tell me that he had just interviewed a young man that had recently left our ward to enter the mission field and that he needed to speak with me. I did not enjoy getting tel calls of this nature, but attempts to locate the SP were not successful. They were calling me to make a decision as to whether or not the young man needed to come home. As I heard the young man provide details about a sin committed after receiving his first temple recommend, it was clear that had he confessed his sin prior to obtaining his endowment, I would have taken his temple recommend. But, the thought of bringing him home never crossed my mind while I spoke with him that morning, because of his repentant attitude. He truly understood the power of repentance and the miracle of forgiveness...it was a great experience for both of us. He went on to serve a faithful and honorable mission, married in the temple, and is a faithful member of the Church.

The attitude of Member A and Member B would definitively influence my decision.

-Cougarobgon

Thanks for the response cougarobgon. So at some point (maybe for your entire 6 years?) while you were a bishop you would have given Member A a temple recommend and denied Member B. Is that not a perfect example of LDS members thinking that WOW adherence is more important than Christian values?

Not attacking, simply discussing.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I've noticed it's a tradition for the new MP to totally trash the old one. I've seen this happen too often to be coincidence. And considering the kids are all pretty much brainwashed, it's easy to do.

Really? How often have you seen this? serously, how many times have you 'seen' this?