okay, I finished the McKay book the other day - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 09-07-2005, 05:59 AM

1. one thing that has certainly opened my eyes is the whole notion of dissent and and disagreement between folks in high places. It actually inspires me to actually state my opinion more often (yes, I realize that there is a certain point where you just let it go...).

2. what's up with all the Paul Dunn quotes? Because he was released/fired, he is more willing to talk about things than GA's? Just curious.

3. I didn't know much about the baseball baptisms and all the quotas. Sounds awful. Glad I wasn't in a mission like that.

4. the ETB I knew as a young man was sure different than the young one, which is actually a testimony builder.

5. I am glad that this book continues to support the notion that I espoused years ago when I wrote an article for the Student Review that blacks and the priesthood was a policy not a doctrine.

6. I sometimes found McKay's indecision a little frustrating. But on the other hand you can learn that sometimes the best thing to do is to sit on something for a while and give it more consideration.

7. Wilkinson comes across like some sort of conniving Igor, but in a generally well-intentioned way (I suppose).

8. That McKay was not someone with family connections to general authorities is significant, and probably in part led to the many innovations he brought. Kind of makes me wonder about the present-day church. I wonder what percent of GA's and mission presidents are from Utah/Idaho. I've met several stake presidents out in the "mission field" whom I could very well imagine as a member of the 70, but I wonder if the nature of the church is such that these folks usually don't get called because they are unknown (out of sight, out of mind).

9. You kind of wish you were even closer to DOM's private thoughts. But in many ways we were spoiled in this book. It is doubtful that we will ever know such things about Gordon B. Hinckley I am afraid. I would like to understand further what happened with Spencer W. Kimball (the prophet of my childhood) and blacks and the priesthood.

Well I have more thoughts, and have already shared many prior to this post, but I'm tired, so it's off to bed.

SteelBlue · 09-07-2005, 06:25 AM

Quote:

2. what's up with all the Paul Dunn quotes? Because he was released/fired, he is more willing to talk about things than GA's? Just curious.

That was probably my only criticism of this book. Not so much that he was quoted so frequently, but that they hid him frequently. Nearly every time a quote was preceded by the phrase "one general authority said..." the source was Paul Dunn. In fact, it may have been every time.

"7. Wilkinson comes across like some sort of conniving Igor, but in a generally well-intentioned way (I suppose)."

I didn't care much for Wilkinson before I read this book. I feel vindicated. That being said, BYU wouldn't be what it is without him. I suppose I should give him credit for that.

Jeff Lebowski · 09-07-2005, 09:24 PM

Thanks. Can't wait to read it.

Parrot Head · 10-10-2005, 09:39 PM

Okay, so I'm way behind in the Book of Bi-Month Club reading as I'm only finishing up the Priesthood chapter -- but I've got a newborn that takes up all my free time! As others have mentioned, I, too, am thirsty for more regarding the decade following DOM's death and the revelation that led to opening up the Priesthood for all. While I know -- at least, assume -- it would not be the main motivation, part of me thinks it may have been further delayed just to show people "the church isn't caving to the demands of NAACP, governments and the like." The whole Nigeria situation is intriguing on so many levels.

My main question in all this babbling though is, is there today any sort of "Mormon intellectual digest" like the frequently mentioned Dialogue? Or is this where the Cryptic Permutations comes in? Or this that vain and overestimating to think of this as a group of intellectuals?

Parrot Head · 10-11-2005, 06:29 PM

I am able to answer my own question... Dialogue is still around.

http://www.dialoguejournal.com/

MikeWaters · 10-11-2005, 07:35 PM

Our next issue, number 138, is in the hands of our new printer (9/29/2005). It should be mailed by the end of next week.

This from the sunstone magazine website.

Dan · 10-11-2005, 09:20 PM

Look on the left hand column of the Dialogue website.

livecoug · 10-18-2005, 08:51 PM

looks interesting, i will have to check it out..

Jeff Lebowski · 12-30-2005, 05:52 PM

OK. I finally finished the DOM bio. Yeah, I know I am hopelessly late, but I had a few other books I wanted to finish first.

Let me just say that I enjoyed the book immensely. What a fascinating biography! Kudos to MW for selecting it. Now, I just need to finish another couple of books and I will be on to the JS bio. It sounds like it is a good one as well.

09-07-2005, 05:59 AM	#1
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	okay, I finished the McKay book the other day 1. one thing that has certainly opened my eyes is the whole notion of dissent and and disagreement between folks in high places. It actually inspires me to actually state my opinion more often (yes, I realize that there is a certain point where you just let it go...). 2. what's up with all the Paul Dunn quotes? Because he was released/fired, he is more willing to talk about things than GA's? Just curious. 3. I didn't know much about the baseball baptisms and all the quotas. Sounds awful. Glad I wasn't in a mission like that. 4. the ETB I knew as a young man was sure different than the young one, which is actually a testimony builder. 5. I am glad that this book continues to support the notion that I espoused years ago when I wrote an article for the Student Review that blacks and the priesthood was a policy not a doctrine. 6. I sometimes found McKay's indecision a little frustrating. But on the other hand you can learn that sometimes the best thing to do is to sit on something for a while and give it more consideration. 7. Wilkinson comes across like some sort of conniving Igor, but in a generally well-intentioned way (I suppose). 8. That McKay was not someone with family connections to general authorities is significant, and probably in part led to the many innovations he brought. Kind of makes me wonder about the present-day church. I wonder what percent of GA's and mission presidents are from Utah/Idaho. I've met several stake presidents out in the "mission field" whom I could very well imagine as a member of the 70, but I wonder if the nature of the church is such that these folks usually don't get called because they are unknown (out of sight, out of mind). 9. You kind of wish you were even closer to DOM's private thoughts. But in many ways we were spoiled in this book. It is doubtful that we will ever know such things about Gordon B. Hinckley I am afraid. I would like to understand further what happened with Spencer W. Kimball (the prophet of my childhood) and blacks and the priesthood. Well I have more thoughts, and have already shared many prior to this post, but I'm tired, so it's off to bed.

10-11-2005, 09:20 PM	#7
Dan Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Elk Grove, California Posts: 211	Dialogue issues 1-34 are free on website Look on the left hand column of the Dialogue website. __________________ Dan Temet Nosce - \"Know Thyself\"

09-07-2005, 09:24 PM	#3
Jeff Lebowski Charon Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo) Posts: 9,564	Thanks. Can't wait to read it.

10-10-2005, 09:39 PM	#4
Parrot Head Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 763	Okay, so I'm way behind in the Book of Bi-Month Club reading as I'm only finishing up the Priesthood chapter -- but I've got a newborn that takes up all my free time! As others have mentioned, I, too, am thirsty for more regarding the decade following DOM's death and the revelation that led to opening up the Priesthood for all. While I know -- at least, assume -- it would not be the main motivation, part of me thinks it may have been further delayed just to show people "the church isn't caving to the demands of NAACP, governments and the like." The whole Nigeria situation is intriguing on so many levels. My main question in all this babbling though is, is there today any sort of "Mormon intellectual digest" like the frequently mentioned Dialogue? Or is this where the Cryptic Permutations comes in? Or this that vain and overestimating to think of this as a group of intellectuals?

10-11-2005, 06:29 PM	#5
Parrot Head Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 763	I am able to answer my own question... Dialogue is still around. http://www.dialoguejournal.com/

10-11-2005, 07:35 PM	#6
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Our next issue, number 138, is in the hands of our new printer (9/29/2005). It should be mailed by the end of next week. This from the sunstone magazine website.

10-18-2005, 08:51 PM	#8
livecoug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,176	looks interesting, i will have to check it out..

12-30-2005, 05:52 PM	#9
Jeff Lebowski Charon Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo) Posts: 9,564	OK. I finally finished the DOM bio. Yeah, I know I am hopelessly late, but I had a few other books I wanted to finish first. Let me just say that I enjoyed the book immensely. What a fascinating biography! Kudos to MW for selecting it. Now, I just need to finish another couple of books and I will be on to the JS bio. It sounds like it is a good one as well.