Under the dem plan it will be illegal to not have insurance

[MikeWaters]

You will be required to have insurance by law.

You want to live off the grid in the wilderness by yourself? Now you are a criminal. YOU HAVE TO PAY TO BE ALIVE!

I wonder what's going to happen when a small business reaches the threshold where they are required by law to pay for insurance for all their employees. I'm betting they hold the line, many of them, until they are absolutely forced to increase. So much for job growth.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

You will be required to have insurance by law.

You want to live off the grid in the wilderness by yourself? Now you are a criminal. YOU HAVE TO PAY TO BE ALIVE!

I wonder what's going to happen when a small business reaches the threshold where they are required by law to pay for insurance for all their employees. I'm betting they hold the line, many of them, until they are absolutely forced to increase. So much for job growth.

Yes, and it ought to be. Willfully uninsured people are reckless and expensive for all of us.

[MikeWaters]

Has anyone here ever met a single person who preferred having Medicaid to private insurance?

I haven't.

By the way I'm glad we don't have the old welfare system that we used to have. Now people are required to work, and can't just live off the dole. That is, if you don't count Section 8 for a house rental, food stamps for junk food and soda, and Obamacare for your health needs. Not to mention that $600+ from SSI disability.

That's what I love about America. The poorest of the poor are fatter than hell.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Has anyone here ever met a single person who preferred having Medicaid to private insurance?

I haven't.

By the way I'm glad we don't have the old welfare system that we used to have. Now people are required to work, and can't just live off the dole. That is, if you don't count Section 8 for a house rental, food stamps for junk food and soda, and Obamacare for your health needs. Not to mention that $600+ from SSI disability.

That's what I love about America. The poorest of the poor are fatter than hell.

Most people on Medicaid don't have the ability to compare Medicaid to private insurance- because they can't afford it. That said, they receive, on average, better care for less money than those who have private insurance receive, so if more could compare, I would imagine many would prefer it.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Has anyone here ever met a single person who preferred having Medicaid to private insurance?

I haven't.

By the way I'm glad we don't have the old welfare system that we used to have. Now people are required to work, and can't just live off the dole. That is, if you don't count Section 8 for a house rental, food stamps for junk food and soda, and Obamacare for your health needs. Not to mention that $600+ from SSI disability.

That's what I love about America. The poorest of the poor are fatter than hell.

By the way, here is a poll on close to the question you posed (Medicare (haven't found on on Medicaid yet, but I would assume the results would be similar) v private insurance):

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Cont...d-Reality.aspx

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi...code=healthaff

Here is info on the costs of Medicare v private insurance:

http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/re...nicalPaper.pdf

http://www.kff.org/insurance/7031/ti2004-1-10.cfm

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/NationalHealt...ads/tables.pdf

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/200...rsus-insurers/

[MikeWaters]

There is such thing as crappy private insurance. I know, because I've had it before. Where they don't pay the doctors, and you end up with a bill and are put through the run-around, and they say they will pay, then you have collection agents calling you. Bastards.

Second off, there are a lot of people with medicare that didn't have any insurance prior to having medicare. So yeah, they are going to be biased in favor of loving their medicare.

It's just like the current debate. Majority of people who currently have health insurance are against the Obama plan. Majority of people with no private health insurance are for it.

And no, medicaid is not the same thing as medicare. It's much harder to find medicaid providers than it is to find medicare providers.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

There is such thing as crappy private insurance. I know, because I've had it before. Where they don't pay the doctors, and you end up with a bill and are put through the run-around, and they say they will pay, then you have collection agents calling you. Bastards.

Second off, there are a lot of people with medicare that didn't have any insurance prior to having medicare. So yeah, they are going to be biased in favor of loving their medicare.

It's just like the current debate. Majority of people who currently have health insurance are against the Obama plan. Majority of people with no private health insurance are for it.

And no, medicaid is not the same thing as medicare. It's much harder to find medicaid providers than it is to find medicare providers.

The support for Medicare is huge, Mike, and I think you realize your error.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/...-of-touch.html

The post above has even more polling data re Medicare. As I said earlier, I realize it is very different than Medicaid, but there is far more data out there with respect to Medicare, and it certainly bolsters the argument that the government can provide (and is providing) excellent health insurance to a large segment of our society, and can do it cheaper than the private insurance companies.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

The support for Medicare is huge, Mike, and I think you realize your error.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/...-of-touch.html

The post above has even more polling data re Medicare. As I said earlier, I realize it is very different than Medicaid, but there is far more data out there with respect to Medicare, and it certainly bolsters the argument that the government can provide (and is providing) excellent health insurance to a large segment of our society, and can do it cheaper than the private insurance companies.

so now you are claiming cost savings? CBO doesn't agree with you. Sure Medicare has less in the way of administrative cost.

But it doesn't pay very much in a lot of instances, and that's why many doctors don't take medicare, or limit the number of medicare patients they take on. Why take medicare then, you ask? Because a lot of docs don't have a choice. If you have privileges at a hospital, you are going to be a medicare provider.

In some instances medicare is preferred. Like at psychiatric hospitals. As long as they medicare days available, no care manager is going to call you up and deny payment.

Again, let's do a poll. See how many people are willing, today, to trade their private insurance for medicare. Would you?

I highly doubt it.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

so now you are claiming cost savings? CBO doesn't agree with you. Sure Medicare has less in the way of administrative cost.

But it doesn't pay very much in a lot of instances, and that's why many doctors don't take medicare, or limit the number of medicare patients they take on. Why take medicare then, you ask? Because a lot of docs don't have a choice. If you have privileges at a hospital, you are going to be a medicare provider.

In some instances medicare is preferred. Like at psychiatric hospitals. As long as they medicare days available, no care manager is going to call you up and deny payment.

Again, let's do a poll. See how many people are willing, today, to trade their private insurance for medicare. Would you?

I highly doubt it.

Sure- I would love to. My employer plan is ridiculously expensive (they hardly subsidize me at all, and my wife isn't subsidized one bit). Medicare could easily fit our needs for far less money.

And yes- Medicare is cheaper and has better cost savings than private insurance (by quite a bit, actually- data provided in my links above).

If you disagree (and think the CBO disagrees), feel free to provide actual data (including the CBO study you believe is out there) rather than your opinion.

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Has anyone here ever met a single person who preferred having Medicaid to private insurance?

I haven't.

By the way I'm glad we don't have the old welfare system that we used to have. Now people are required to work, and can't just live off the dole. That is, if you don't count Section 8 for a house rental, food stamps for junk food and soda, and Obamacare for your health needs. Not to mention that $600+ from SSI disability.

That's what I love about America. The poorest of the poor are fatter than hell.

This reminds me of an acquaintance/friend of mine who I has been most vocal critic of health care reform and increased government options. When the topic of medicaid came up, she said "I know about medicaid. My first son was born using medicaid because my husband had just started med school, and we had no income." Then, she goes on to say how poor government health can be because she still knows--her husband joined the military so now all their health care comes from that system. I just find it ironic that someone like that wants to limit options she has elected for herself. I mean, I suppose in both of these cases, she could choose private coverage--but she doesn't.