PAC-10 expansion

[JJS]

I don't know what to make of the claims of Utah and Colorado being invited. It all makes me a little sick. My Utah supporting friends are all of a sudden beating their chest and can't wait to leave the conference, and BYU, behind. Not sure of the practicalities of it all. It will be interesting to see where the dominoes fall. None of this bodes well for the Y. Maybe I'm wrong.

[MikeWaters]

I haven't read any news reports but Colin Cowherd was on this morning and said that it is long past-due for Pac-10 to expand. That Utah is a no-brainer. He said BYU has "religious issues" "Sunday play." He said he doesn't want "another hippie school" in reference to Colorado. Then said Fresno is a no-go, "nobody wants to stay at the Fresno Ramada." He said he would take Utah and probably BYU because "it is a natural rivalry." But he was clearly lukewarm on BYU.

I think most of us that are BYU fans and have followed conference expansion talk, have long known that it is a long-shot for BYU to be invited to the Pac-10. They are arrogant liberal bitches and sons of bitches, and they see inviting BYU to be about as attractive as inviting Oral Roberts.

[JJS]

BYU is mentioned to fill Colorado's place in the Big 12, but I see TCU being a better candidate. I hope this is all political positioning on the part of the PAC-10. I still say the best move for Utah and BYU is to expand the MWC. I like adding Houston, Fresno, and maybe Nevada. Utah fans might be glowing and taunting with their inclusion in the PAC-10 but they will be nothing more than pawns for the traditional schools.

[MikeWaters]

This columnist says Utah and BYU make the most sense to him.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...SPTB1BUVCC.DTL

The argument against BYU is that it doesn't add a geographic media market, although one might argue that BYU is stronger in the Utah media market than Utah, and also has more of a national (LDS) following.

But adding Colorado would add Denver.

I think BYU fans could live with Utah going to the Pac 10 and BYU going to the Big 12 (for example, in place of Colorado).

Build the BYU brand in the South and Midwest, where LDS are less well-known. The West Coast is tapped out. If the church is going to expand in the USA, it needs more exposure in the South.

Plus the games will me more available to me personally. Plus the Big 12 is a better cultural fit.

The downside is that the Big 12 is poorly run, with terrible TV contract (we will be wishing for the Mtn channel if we end up in the Big 12). The Big 12 could be a couple of major defections away from complete collapse.

It would be a minor disaster for BYU to be left in the MWC and Utah goes to the Pac 10. Boise State comes to the MWC.

Part of me would like to see the games against Utah come to an end in that case. But I can't see that happening, as it is too much of a money-maker for the schools. I would support a 2/1 deal with Utah.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by JJS

BYU is mentioned to fill Colorado's place in the Big 12, but I see TCU being a better candidate. I hope this is all political positioning on the part of the PAC-10. I still say the best move for Utah and BYU is to expand the MWC. I like adding Houston, Fresno, and maybe Nevada. Utah fans might be glowing and taunting with their inclusion in the PAC-10 but they will be nothing more than pawns for the traditional schools.

TCU is not a better candidate. TCU is a small private commuter school that adds no new market for the Big 12. Dallas/Fort Worth is already captured by OU/t.u./A&M. If Patterson leaves TCU, they are back to being a doormat with 20k in the stands. They are a heart attack away from being another Baylor.

I think all the Texas and Oklahoma schools would be opposed to TCU.

Plus, CU leaving would leave a gap in the Big 12 North. And BYU would make more sense to plug into the North than TCU. PLUS, BYU has a credible basketball program. TCU does not.

[JJS]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

This columnist says Utah and BYU make the most sense to him.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...SPTB1BUVCC.DTL

The argument against BYU is that it doesn't add a geographic media market, although one might argue that BYU is stronger in the Utah media market than Utah, and also has more of a national (LDS) following.

But adding Colorado would add Denver.

I think BYU fans could live with Utah going to the Pac 10 and BYU going to the Big 12 (for example, in place of Colorado).

Build the BYU brand in the South and Midwest, where LDS are less well-known. The West Coast is tapped out. If the church is going to expand in the USA, it needs more exposure in the South.

Plus the games will me more available to me personally. Plus the Big 12 is a better cultural fit.

The downside is that the Big 12 is poorly run, with terrible TV contract (we will be wishing for the Mtn channel if we end up in the Big 12). The Big 12 could be a couple of major defections away from complete collapse.

It would be a minor disaster for BYU to be left in the MWC and Utah goes to the Pac 10. Boise State comes to the MWC.

Part of me would like to see the games against Utah come to an end in that case. But I can't see that happening, as it is too much of a money-maker for the schools. I would support a 2/1 deal with Utah.

Wow, some of the comments from the chronicle's readers are funny. USC would love to have BYU in the conference. They instantly become the most hated team.

[MikeWaters]

I have to admit that heads exploding on the West Coast with a BYU admission to the Pac-1+9 would bring me great joy.

[MikeWaters]

If moves are made in the Pac-10, Big 10, and Big 12, and BYU is the odd man out, boy will that be tough.

That will mean for example Utah, a commuter school that historically cannot fill its crappy stadium, will be getting something on the order of 10x the money that BYU does through TV and bowls.

And the big rival for BYU would become TCU. Maybe we could add the Methodists at SMU as well. Sheesh.

We would certainly be the big dog in the MWC, and be able to throw our weight around.

A football conference with BYU, TCU, and Boise State would be nothing to sneeze at. And one could imagine that those top 3 might be better than the top 3 in the Pac 10 some years. But the money gap will get wider and wider

Brethren, this is a time for fasting and prayer. That BYU gets lifted up to glory, to fulfill the 3-fold mission of the church. And win some meaningful football games.

Tom Holmoe, I am counting on you.

I wonder if there aren't some LDS big hat/big ranch donors at Utah that would be upset to see BYU left behind and would exert pressure on the school to make Utah and BYU a package deal.

But that's like counting on scumbags to do right. And let's face it--the reason that Utah is more attractive is because they are evil and don't stand for what's right. They embrace the world. We should be prepared to be rejected by the world. Which Jesus, if you are listening, would be a good time come back down again and restore order.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

If moves are made in the Pac-10, Big 10, and Big 12, and BYU is the odd man out, boy will that be tough.

That will mean for example Utah, a commuter school that historically cannot fill its crappy stadium, will be getting something on the order of 10x the money that BYU does through TV and bowls.

And the big rival for BYU would become TCU. Maybe we could add the Methodists at SMU as well. Sheesh.

We would certainly be the big dog in the MWC, and be able to throw our weight around.

A football conference with BYU, TCU, and Boise State would be nothing to sneeze at. And one could imagine that those top 3 might be better than the top 3 in the Pac 10 some years. But the money gap will get wider and wider

Brethren, this is a time for fasting and prayer. That BYU gets lifted up to glory, to fulfill the 3-fold mission of the church. And win some meaningful football games.

Tom Holmoe, I am counting on you.

I wonder if there aren't some LDS big hat/big ranch donors at Utah that would be upset to see BYU left behind and would exert pressure on the school to make Utah and BYU a package deal.

But that's like counting on scumbags to do right. And let's face it--the reason that Utah is more attractive is because they are evil and don't stand for what's right. They embrace the world. We should be prepared to be rejected by the world. Which Jesus, if you are listening, would be a good time come back down again and restore order.

I largely agree.

I think BYU is the next best choice for the Big 12 should a slot open up. That could come either through a Pac 10 invitation to CU or a Big 10 inviation to Missouri. BYU would then be the pick to fill the vacancy in the Big 12 North (I think). TCU doesn't make any sense for the Big 12. They already have Dallas locked up, and TCU can't even sell out its own stadium (they did for the first time this year half way through their season). TCU has a small student body and few built in fans. They aren't even the 2nd biggest Dallas attraction right now. Their facilities are not Big 12 worthy, BBall stinks, and so do most other sports. If their coach leaves for greener pastures, there is nothing that suggests they have a lasting football program either. On top of all that, the Big 12 North already hates the Texas focus of the Big 12, and OU and Nebraska would throw a fit.

For the Pac 10, BYU makes financial sense, but culturally they don't fit at all. Prop 8 may have hurt their chances even more. Utah and CU are the only real teams that make any sense for the Pac 10 (BSU, Fresno, CSU, SDSU- none of those fit the Pac 10 paradigms). The only other possible team would be UNLV, but their facilities are garbage and their academics are poor (although improving with a new law school and dental school).

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

If moves are made in the Pac-10, Big 10, and Big 12, and BYU is the odd man out, boy will that be tough.

That will mean for example Utah, a commuter school that historically cannot fill its crappy stadium, will be getting something on the order of 10x the money that BYU does through TV and bowls.

And the big rival for BYU would become TCU. Maybe we could add the Methodists at SMU as well. Sheesh.

We would certainly be the big dog in the MWC, and be able to throw our weight around.

A football conference with BYU, TCU, and Boise State would be nothing to sneeze at. And one could imagine that those top 3 might be better than the top 3 in the Pac 10 some years. But the money gap will get wider and wider

Brethren, this is a time for fasting and prayer. That BYU gets lifted up to glory, to fulfill the 3-fold mission of the church. And win some meaningful football games.

Tom Holmoe, I am counting on you.

I wonder if there aren't some LDS big hat/big ranch donors at Utah that would be upset to see BYU left behind and would exert pressure on the school to make Utah and BYU a package deal.

But that's like counting on scumbags to do right. And let's face it--the reason that Utah is more attractive is because they are evil and don't stand for what's right. They embrace the world. We should be prepared to be rejected by the world. Which Jesus, if you are listening, would be a good time come back down again and restore order.

I've got a better idea than fasting and prayer. BYU should clean up its act: Apologize for decades of racism. Apologize for providing a platform for hate mongers like Mark E. Peterson. Apologize for racism in the Book of Mormon. Apologize for persecuting and firing professors for expressing intellectual ideas at odds with Mormon dogma. Apoloize for banishing artistic works of genius on grounds of moral prudence. Apologize for professors who teach that the Tower of Babel, the Flood and Nephi are history. For example, http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.js...____&hideNav=1.

That would be a good start. It would also be helpful if BYU could give some assurance that going forward its culture will be more in line with the Pac 10's ethos. Step 1 would be divesting itself from the LDS church's finances and governance.

I hope it happens. I would love to have BYU in the Pac 10 with Utah.