Boy this guy hates Religion He could be Seattle Ute ;) - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Mormon Red Death · 04-29-2007, 01:25 AM

http://www.slate.com/id/2165033/

BarbaraGordon · 04-29-2007, 01:52 AM

I wonder how much he has to say in his book that hasn't already been said by Dawkins or Harris. I also wonder if he's annoyed that his parents gave him the name Christopher.

YOhio · 04-29-2007, 02:19 AM

I recently suggested that book for Book of the Month but CatBlue was the only supporter.

il Padrino Ute · 04-29-2007, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

I wonder how much he has to say in his book that hasn't already been said by Dawkins or Harris. I also wonder if he's annoyed that his parents gave him the name Christopher.

Perhaps he changed his name to Christopher from Christian.

SeattleUte · 04-29-2007, 05:25 AM

I read the article. There are some intersting tid bits. I have thought that the parallels between Mormonism and Islam were too close to be accidental, and this is really the first place I've seen evidence that Joseph Smith was actually aware of Muhammad's story and claims, and was consciously inspired by them. Also, it's interesting to know that 27,000 words of the Book of Mormon come straight out of the King James Version of the Bible, and another 2,000 are comprised of "And it came to pass..." (As I recall, thanks to Brodie for these statistics.) That represents a lot of the book's girth

But I must say Hitchins' article is a rather superficial treatment, and needlessly mean spirited. The sardonic tone does nothing to bolster his argument, is in fact quite distracting, and with so much to work with I'm surprised he had to descend to the gutter as he did. Clearly these columnists gain their high falutin reputations a lot like people win high school elections.

I'm astonished he didn't address the Book of Abraham, which is low hanging fruit for this type of analysis, and in its own right the discovery of the papyrus, etc. is a facinating story. In a sense the Book of Abraham is the proverbial smoking gun though in my opinion this terminology gives undeserved credit to the Book of Mormon, in a back handed way. He missed a good opportunity to use the Book of Abraham to make his case simply and concretely. It is the only part of the Mormon canon for which we have the original document, and Joseph's translation and the original papyrus are worlds apart, of course.

Also, while he notes that 200 of the 350 names in the Book of Mormon are to be found in the Bible, he misses another opportunity in ommitting that most of the leading characters' names and place names are apparently derived from place names around Palmyra (but I learned this just today on CG!).

His reference to "Dr. Brodie", who only attained a master's degree, is evidence of a quick and dirty job.

A weak effort overall.

SeattleUte · 04-29-2007, 05:30 AM

I did smile at his comment, "Dr. Fawn Brodie, whose 1945 book 'No Man Knows My History' was a good-faith attempt by a professional historian to put the kindest possible interpretation on the relevant 'events.'" I don't know if he was trying to be funny.

Jeff Lebowski · 04-29-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I did smile at his comment, "Dr. Fawn Brodie, whose 1945 book 'No Man Knows My History' was a good-faith attempt by a professional historian to put the kindest possible interpretation on the relevant 'events.'" I don't know if he was trying to be funny.

I am guessing that he has never actually cracked open the book but is basing his entire analysis on a review or two that he has read.

SeattleUte · 04-29-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I am guessing that he has never actually cracked open the book but is basing his entire analysis on a review or two that he has read.

Either that or he skimmed, and I really mean skimmed, Brodie's book and that was the sole source of this article. The reason I suspect that may be so is No Man Knows My History came before the discovery of the Book of Abraham papyrus, and he didn't seize on that, as I would have thought he would.

Archaea · 04-29-2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

His reference to "Dr. Brodie", who only attained a master's degree, is evidence of a quick and dirty job.

In English, not history no less.

SeattleUte · 04-29-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

In English, not history no less.

I think we've discussed how meaningless this is. See, e.g., Barbara Tuchman, Shelby Foote, and William L. Shirer.

04-29-2007, 01:25 AM	#1
Mormon Red Death Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clinton Township, MI Posts: 3,126	Boy this guy hates Religion He could be Seattle Ute ;) http://www.slate.com/id/2165033/ __________________ Its all about the suit

04-29-2007, 05:25 AM	#5
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	I read the article. There are some intersting tid bits. I have thought that the parallels between Mormonism and Islam were too close to be accidental, and this is really the first place I've seen evidence that Joseph Smith was actually aware of Muhammad's story and claims, and was consciously inspired by them. Also, it's interesting to know that 27,000 words of the Book of Mormon come straight out of the King James Version of the Bible, and another 2,000 are comprised of "And it came to pass..." (As I recall, thanks to Brodie for these statistics.) That represents a lot of the book's girth But I must say Hitchins' article is a rather superficial treatment, and needlessly mean spirited. The sardonic tone does nothing to bolster his argument, is in fact quite distracting, and with so much to work with I'm surprised he had to descend to the gutter as he did. Clearly these columnists gain their high falutin reputations a lot like people win high school elections. I'm astonished he didn't address the Book of Abraham, which is low hanging fruit for this type of analysis, and in its own right the discovery of the papyrus, etc. is a facinating story. In a sense the Book of Abraham is the proverbial smoking gun though in my opinion this terminology gives undeserved credit to the Book of Mormon, in a back handed way. He missed a good opportunity to use the Book of Abraham to make his case simply and concretely. It is the only part of the Mormon canon for which we have the original document, and Joseph's translation and the original papyrus are worlds apart, of course. Also, while he notes that 200 of the 350 names in the Book of Mormon are to be found in the Bible, he misses another opportunity in ommitting that most of the leading characters' names and place names are apparently derived from place names around Palmyra (but I learned this just today on CG!). His reference to "Dr. Brodie", who only attained a master's degree, is evidence of a quick and dirty job. A weak effort overall. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster Last edited by SeattleUte; 04-29-2007 at 03:03 PM.

04-29-2007, 05:30 AM	#6
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	I did smile at his comment, "Dr. Fawn Brodie, whose 1945 book 'No Man Knows My History' was a good-faith attempt by a professional historian to put the kindest possible interpretation on the relevant 'events.'" I don't know if he was trying to be funny. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

04-29-2007, 01:52 AM	#2
BarbaraGordon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gotham City Posts: 7,157	I wonder how much he has to say in his book that hasn't already been said by Dawkins or Harris. I also wonder if he's annoyed that his parents gave him the name Christopher.

04-29-2007, 02:19 AM	#3
YOhio AKA SeattleNewt Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 7,055	I recently suggested that book for Book of the Month but CatBlue was the only supporter.