Are you *sure* marriage is worthwhile? - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Hazzard · 12-03-2005, 10:47 PM

Arch, these are all good points. Aren't you a divorce lawyer? That would make sense, based on your lucid comments.

I'd like to explore the idea you bring up that one bad spouse can kind of ruin it for the both of them. I know my friends aren't perfect, and it always takes two to tango, but for some of them, their wives are just really hard to deal with. They are controlling and bratty and basically act as if they want their husbands to be miserable. It's really hard for me to watch because I know how great these guys are. When we talk now, they don't have any spunk, any personality. It's like they've been stripped of their real selves and are being reprogrammed to be exactly what their wives want them to be.

Honestly, it has made me very cautious about getting married. I understand that mostly it's work and no marriage is easy, but I'm curious about the best way to ensure that I find a girl who isn't so controlling. I'm not looking for a perfect wife, just a wife who will let me be myself. In my experience, girls all let on that they're going to be this way, but once they've got you locked up in a long-term relationship they put on the clamps. Or maybe I should just give in that this is the way it's going to be and my life is going to suck. As divorce lawyer Miles Massey (George Clooney) said in Intolerable Cruelty, "That's her job. You should respect that."

tooblue · 12-04-2005, 12:54 AM

Wow, what a thread!

Selfishness, not marriage is the principle culprit that brings about misery –one MUST learn to separate the two ideas.

Archea makes very powerful and honest points, his post should be read and reread.

My goal was to meet an attractive woman that would permit me to be myself at all times, despite her natural disposition to want total control and to change me, in otherwords the whole package … I married a physically striking woman who, for the most part, resists the urge to control and change me … I am not being overly sappy or melodramatic when I say that she IS the only woman in a room that really draws my gaze and has my full attention.

I cannot express how grateful I am that she is a part of my life –I am especially grateful for the frustration as well as the happy times … no matter how much I want to I cannot have one without the other.

What is the point of this post … fear nothing, least of all marriage! I believe there are many more happily married persons than unhappily married persons in the church (based purely on an informal mental pole of friends and family).

Archaea · 12-04-2005, 12:59 AM

don't look at marriage as a contract, because if you believe that the other party isn't fulfilling her part of the bargain, you feel jipped.

Ask yourself these questions,

Do I like myself when I'm with her?

Do I want to be my best when I'm with her?

Is she cute to me?

Is she naturally affectionate?

Is she kind?

Does she have a good sense of self?

Will she compromise sometimes but not always?

Is she a good worker?

And here is one, that might not make sense, but it's important to me, is she healthy?

I have friends and business clients for whom I've done divorces, but I'm not a divorce lawyer. I couldn't take it, as divorce court is a zoo, not real law. They ignore the law there, and the policies there are crazy.

Don't expect too much from marriage, but expect a lot from yourself.

P.S., being single is only fun the first time around. If you "want to be yourself", you don't quite get it. No offense intended. Find pleasure in making her happy, and you can feel good about yourself. If her pleasure and joy comes first, you will receive more out of it.

P.P.S. This is no guarantee, and everyone of us will forget this goal at some point in their marriage. I forgot it for long periods of time when I devoted myself to work. It created barriers which I may never break down.

However, most of the time, not always, most divorcees will admit they should have worked harder at their marriages, shouldn't have given up so soon.

IMHO, divorce is only merited, when it is necessary for one partner to complete some repentance. Be it habitual adultery or substance abuse. Aside from that, I believe divorce is over-used.

Marriage is not this pleasure ride into the life of luxury, but a partnership. Some are good, some are bad, others are in between, but nobody can become the most they become without entering into it. It is easy to be a good person as a single person. It's very hard to be a good person as a married person, but you can be better through marriage.

That's my perspective, imperfect as it is. I cannot imagine ever entertaining divorce, even though my marriage is far from perfect, and we both drive each other crazy at times. It is a covenant of the somberest proportions. If you are a man of integrity, you honor, especially if your wife is driving you mad. In that case, she needs you. You may be the only person who can save her, her only chance.

Don't select a charity case, but know there will be misery in the marriage, and be okay with it. It's part of the learning process. Keep your cool and a sense of humor, you'll be better off, no matter what. Marriage, do it.

ute4ever · 12-04-2005, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

don't look at marriage as a contract, because if you believe that the other party isn't fulfilling her part of the bargain, you feel jipped.

In addition to everything Archea wrote, I once heard a general authority say in marriage, you cannot keep score, and in fact, even amongst everyday friends you should not keep score.

Spouses often do so many little things for one another that the other doesn't see. It takes a self-centered individual, who is not putting the other person first, to assess if they are receiving as much as they are giving.

non sequitur · 12-04-2005, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute4ever

In addition to everything Archea wrote, I once heard a general authority say in marriage, you cannot keep score, and in fact, even amongst everyday friends you should not keep score.

I'm not keeping score, but my wife is definitely winning.

Hazzard · 12-04-2005, 06:41 PM

Thanks for the responses, guys. I'm learning a ton by reading and re-reading your posts. And Arch, I took no offense at your comment that if I "want to be myself" in marriage, I don't quite get it. I fully recognize that in a lot of respects, I don't quite get it! I'm someone who likes to figure things out before I do them, which, in the case of marriage, is laregely a losing battle because of the many things that can't be figured out until they are experienced. But that hasn't stopped me from trying. Maybe I'll stop now.

I don't intend to keep score in my future marriage, as I haven't done that in my family/guy friend/girlfriend relationships up to this point, but I guess I do kind of keep the score of my friends' marriages. And as I think about what I'm really trying to express, let me try to summarize it briefly: I have a fear of getting into one of those small percentage of marriages where the wife controls her husband to the point of emotional torture.

Indeed, I should fear less than I do. If I just keep my head on straight and think things through and perhaps rely on a bit of inspiration, things will work out fine, as they usually do. And I definitely recognize, even as a single guy, that the only way to true happiness is by loving and serving others more than myself. That principle has never failed me in the past, and it won't fail me in the future.

12-04-2005, 12:59 AM	#13
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Look at what you want to contribute don't look at marriage as a contract, because if you believe that the other party isn't fulfilling her part of the bargain, you feel jipped. Ask yourself these questions, Do I like myself when I'm with her? Do I want to be my best when I'm with her? Is she cute to me? Is she naturally affectionate? Is she kind? Does she have a good sense of self? Will she compromise sometimes but not always? Is she a good worker? And here is one, that might not make sense, but it's important to me, is she healthy? I have friends and business clients for whom I've done divorces, but I'm not a divorce lawyer. I couldn't take it, as divorce court is a zoo, not real law. They ignore the law there, and the policies there are crazy. Don't expect too much from marriage, but expect a lot from yourself. P.S., being single is only fun the first time around. If you "want to be yourself", you don't quite get it. No offense intended. Find pleasure in making her happy, and you can feel good about yourself. If her pleasure and joy comes first, you will receive more out of it. P.P.S. This is no guarantee, and everyone of us will forget this goal at some point in their marriage. I forgot it for long periods of time when I devoted myself to work. It created barriers which I may never break down. However, most of the time, not always, most divorcees will admit they should have worked harder at their marriages, shouldn't have given up so soon. IMHO, divorce is only merited, when it is necessary for one partner to complete some repentance. Be it habitual adultery or substance abuse. Aside from that, I believe divorce is over-used. Marriage is not this pleasure ride into the life of luxury, but a partnership. Some are good, some are bad, others are in between, but nobody can become the most they become without entering into it. It is easy to be a good person as a single person. It's very hard to be a good person as a married person, but you can be better through marriage. That's my perspective, imperfect as it is. I cannot imagine ever entertaining divorce, even though my marriage is far from perfect, and we both drive each other crazy at times. It is a covenant of the somberest proportions. If you are a man of integrity, you honor, especially if your wife is driving you mad. In that case, she needs you. You may be the only person who can save her, her only chance. Don't select a charity case, but know there will be misery in the marriage, and be okay with it. It's part of the learning process. Keep your cool and a sense of humor, you'll be better off, no matter what. Marriage, do it. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

12-03-2005, 10:47 PM	#11
Hazzard Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 158	Arch, these are all good points. Aren't you a divorce lawyer? That would make sense, based on your lucid comments. I'd like to explore the idea you bring up that one bad spouse can kind of ruin it for the both of them. I know my friends aren't perfect, and it always takes two to tango, but for some of them, their wives are just really hard to deal with. They are controlling and bratty and basically act as if they want their husbands to be miserable. It's really hard for me to watch because I know how great these guys are. When we talk now, they don't have any spunk, any personality. It's like they've been stripped of their real selves and are being reprogrammed to be exactly what their wives want them to be. Honestly, it has made me very cautious about getting married. I understand that mostly it's work and no marriage is easy, but I'm curious about the best way to ensure that I find a girl who isn't so controlling. I'm not looking for a perfect wife, just a wife who will let me be myself. In my experience, girls all let on that they're going to be this way, but once they've got you locked up in a long-term relationship they put on the clamps. Or maybe I should just give in that this is the way it's going to be and my life is going to suck. As divorce lawyer Miles Massey (George Clooney) said in Intolerable Cruelty, "That's her job. You should respect that."

12-04-2005, 12:54 AM	#12
tooblue Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,016	Wow, what a thread! Selfishness, not marriage is the principle culprit that brings about misery –one MUST learn to separate the two ideas. Archea makes very powerful and honest points, his post should be read and reread. My goal was to meet an attractive woman that would permit me to be myself at all times, despite her natural disposition to want total control and to change me, in otherwords the whole package … I married a physically striking woman who, for the most part, resists the urge to control and change me … I am not being overly sappy or melodramatic when I say that she IS the only woman in a room that really draws my gaze and has my full attention. I cannot express how grateful I am that she is a part of my life –I am especially grateful for the frustration as well as the happy times … no matter how much I want to I cannot have one without the other. What is the point of this post … fear nothing, least of all marriage! I believe there are many more happily married persons than unhappily married persons in the church (based purely on an informal mental pole of friends and family).

12-04-2005, 06:41 PM	#16
Hazzard Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 158	Thanks for the responses, guys. I'm learning a ton by reading and re-reading your posts. And Arch, I took no offense at your comment that if I "want to be myself" in marriage, I don't quite get it. I fully recognize that in a lot of respects, I don't quite get it! I'm someone who likes to figure things out before I do them, which, in the case of marriage, is laregely a losing battle because of the many things that can't be figured out until they are experienced. But that hasn't stopped me from trying. Maybe I'll stop now. I don't intend to keep score in my future marriage, as I haven't done that in my family/guy friend/girlfriend relationships up to this point, but I guess I do kind of keep the score of my friends' marriages. And as I think about what I'm really trying to express, let me try to summarize it briefly: I have a fear of getting into one of those small percentage of marriages where the wife controls her husband to the point of emotional torture. Indeed, I should fear less than I do. If I just keep my head on straight and think things through and perhaps rely on a bit of inspiration, things will work out fine, as they usually do. And I definitely recognize, even as a single guy, that the only way to true happiness is by loving and serving others more than myself. That principle has never failed me in the past, and it won't fail me in the future.